Steve To my understanding, what you described makes sense, and I think Ben was making a similar point as well. It has to do with the "seam divide" between analog and digital systems. But should this really be so? I think not. Not in a design sense. One can safely assume this divide will be breached. Too many scientists are focussed upon this in the world. My own research points to this potential. Laureates are calling for a "new" science.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Around 1999, I was called upon to write a technical manual for telecoms. It was one of those that resisted writing for a few years, due to complexity. What was it about? The call control server, which had as purpose to manage the conversion of analog signalling and messaging to SS7 digital networks across the globe. I'm convinced that the bidirectional conversion between quantum and digital systems, and probably for a partially-collapsed wave function, is doable in a computational sense. Maybe we should even be stepping back, and not forward? I think we should probably stop talking too much about the term "quantum", but rather drill down the quantum class to focus on the subclasses for inspiration. We should be talking a whole lot more about gravity and wave functions. We should definitely be talking about quantum entanglement, even if we have tons to learn about it. I think this is the stuff scientists should be grokking and trying to experiment with now. We should definitely be collaborating to some extent, and maybe this list is as good as its going to get, even while suspecting how silent "others" are probably scraping this knowledge for clues to quietly enhance their privatized experimentation. Maybe that's OK too. Pervasiveness of knowledge is a social equalizer. This quest for progress then, not only for AGI, but also for AGI. Where AGI could be viewed in the role of a global device for seamless transformation and retro manifestation. We cannot afford to stop at "quantum", and discount it. There are too many superpower tech companies and governments forging ahead with this. Us, as researchers, need to keep up. Developers here, need to try and keep up. It is doable. It is algorithmically driven. The processes can be specified. We can learn a lot from fission, but probably more now from fusion. Thinking of which then. Perhaps I should collaborate to patent the Po1 theory I'm grokking away on. This, before some supertech company grabs it and patents it. Right IBM? 😉 Rob ________________________________ From: Steve Richfield <steve.richfi...@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, 03 April 2021 05:13 To: AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> Subject: Re: [agi] Toward a Useful General Theory of General Intelligence Two quick comments, 1. Remember my past comments regarding bidirectional computing - that neurons are obviously doing this, and conventional computers find it onerously slow doing such computations. 2. I was once involved in a project to solve time-dependent Schrodinger equations - basically, pretending to be a quantum computer. It worked - sort of, but there were many computational anomalies, equivalent to multiplying things by what amounts to be 0/0 or needing to solve non-converging infinite series’, so despite being able to choose between equivalent formulas, sometimes we got solutions, but other times not. Besides, aside from being super fast, it isn’t obvious that quantum computing is desirable for ANY real-world computations. Steve Richfield On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 11:03 AM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <nano...@live.com<mailto:nano...@live.com>> wrote: Ben Thanks for your response. My apologies for not being clear enough. I wasn't suggesting running a quantum simulation on a classical machine, but referring more to including the objective as a theoretical consideration, design wise. Specifically, given the advancement of quantum science, suggesting to not exclude the development of the quantum aspect due to the lack of a quantum computational platform. In other words, suggesting a holistic approach to a generalized version of AGI. Rob ________________________________ From: Ben Goertzel <b...@goertzel.org<mailto:b...@goertzel.org>> Sent: Friday, 02 April 2021 17:05 To: AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com<mailto:agi@agi.topicbox.com>> Subject: Re: [agi] Toward a Useful General Theory of General Intelligence Hmm, it seems to me that while dealing essentially with classical computing hardware, it makes most sense to focus on real-number probabilistic reasoning and real-number-probabilistic-types, real-number-probabilistic programs, etc. When dealing w/ quantum computing hardware then it makes sense to focus on complex-number probabilistic reasoning / types / programs, etc. I'm not convinced that simulating quantum AI algorithms on classical computing is a useful practical AGI strategy... However I do want to give Hyperon a sufficiently flexible type system and compute framework that one can run it on a computer with a Quantum Processing Unit and it can manage the interface w/ the quantum AI software running on the QPU via elegantly and efficiently interleaving complex-number-probabilistic-types w/ real-number-probabilistic types. Basically Hyperon won't in its initial classical form run on QPU but it should be able to treat QPU processes as monads and reason about their states using proper treatment of amplitudes in its type system... This is def. not the main focus now though, it's just something that will come along for the ride if we design things right... ben On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 2:57 AM Nanograte Knowledge Technologies <nano...@live.com<mailto:nano...@live.com>> wrote: > > Thanks Ben > > Well put and deeply appreciated. However, I do not think one has to wait > before including quantum wave functions into the architectural design for > generalized AGI. The knowledge is involving so rapidly, and research into > pinpointing the connection between partial collapse and the environment are > advancing rapidly. > > Granted, it would depend on the approach taken to developing a generalized > version of AGI. However, the key to unlocking true quantum computing, > including AGI as a quantum-enabled mind, probably resides in the nuclear > processes inherent in the wave function, in all states and single state > specifically. Understood, the need for reversibility being the control > required to prevent the Halting problem from occurring in the environment. > > For example, I think Musk's AGI-related efforts in particular seem to favour > this approach, to enable the transformational mechanism within a quantum > computer and connect that directly to the human brain (as environment), > thereby facilitating the quantum flux required for informational flow to > become persistent and pervasive. > > As you beautifully stated in response to recent criticism about your decision > to now adapt your approach to AGI development, as pure relevance, which you > based on years of past learning. So should these emerging developments (even > in relative infancy as new science) have relevance. Perhaps even offering the > potential for making a quantum leap in development? > > Question: If you focussed on the core mechanism for enabling a generalized > AGI, would that not make sense to now pursue that to the fullest extent? > > A core approach would still remain constructivist, enabling control > hierarchies to be operational, but in a different sense though, rather > constructing from the core outward, not via a classical approach of inverse > reductionism, in the sense of a fractal approach, instead primarily relying > on what emerges for the inherent nature of superpatterns. > > Viewing this similarly to the Euro-tunnel project, drilling from both > directions. If the science-in-engineering proved correct, the tunnel would be > encouraged to meet up exactly and integrate as a whole. > > Rob > > ________________________________ > From: Ben Goertzel <b...@goertzel.org<mailto:b...@goertzel.org>> > Sent: Friday, 02 April 2021 07:17 > To: AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com<mailto:agi@agi.topicbox.com>> > Subject: Re: [agi] Toward a Useful General Theory of General Intelligence > > > > > Your thoughts on quantum entanglement and AGI? > > > > Rob > > I suspect that quantum computing will enable even smarter AGIs than > digital computing, but that digital computing can serve as the > substrate for AGIs with greater than human GI ... > > I have argued recently that quantum probabilistic logic is a close > approximation to (an isomorphically transformed version of) uncertain > paraconsistent logic, > > https://arxiv.org/abs/2101.07498 > > -- this direction of thinking may ultimately help w/ the design of > quantum reasoning engines. For quantum reinforcement learning of > quantum neural nets and similar, I suspect evolutionary learning may > be a good approach, with mutation and crossover operations that can > occur w/in uncollapsed systems w/o causing collapse. I also think > fully exploiting the power of QM for AI may require understanding weak > measurement and "partially collapsed" quantum systems like one sees in > quantum biology. There are a lot of exciting directions here but I > currently doubt they are going to be necessary for the first > breakthrough to human-level AGI. They may end up being breakthroughs > made *by* the initial digitally-implemented human-level or moderately > transhuman AGIs. > > -- Ben > Artificial General Intelligence List / AGI / see discussions + participants + > delivery options Permalink -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org “He not busy being born is busy dying" -- Bob Dylan -- Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full employment. Artificial General Intelligence List<https://agi.topicbox.com/latest> / AGI / see discussions<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + participants<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery options<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> Permalink<https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9a211170d976967d-M314917ab0b63795bb9da786d> ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T9a211170d976967d-M9e433110fac883f7766a97f7 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
