This sounds like a take on the typical mind/body duality. The body is just following orders from the mind, which here you've characterized as being language oriented, while you associate body (brought up in terms of robotics) with following algorithms. I see your point, but would not agree that it was that clear cut. It reminds me a bit of Wittgenstein and what I know about the analytic philosophers: chiefly that they took a language-first approach, but then at least with Wittgenstein *everything* that happens can be seen in terms of propositions, that is, an occurrence is isomorphic with a proposition, not just psychological phenomena.
On 3/27/13, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, Ben, you are right and wrong. > > Yes, existing operating systems have no direct connection to executive > selves. > > But no, they simply cannot function *without* human operators/ executive > selves directly connected to and operating them. And it is those human > operators who are continually making the real, "executive", > "nonprogrammable" decisions about which of the endless programs/algorithms > available (not just in the machine but on the net) - and which of each > program's many subprograms/subroutines - should be engaged. The low-level > > operating systems as we know them, merely effect human high-level decisions. > > They can't make them. > > So robotic/computer low-level operating systems don't work without a > high-level [human] "OPERATOR SYSTEM" - a new and vital concept. > > A true AGI therefore must incorporate both an operating and an operator > system. And the central question for AGI is how should such an "operator > system" work? How should this *supra-algorithmic* entity think about which > algorithms should be triggered? > > The answer, I've realised, is that language - or to be more precise, a > conceptual system - is the medium of an operator system. > > Language/a-conceptual-system enables an operator to make high-level, > general, creative decisions , precisely because language is a truly > general system in which every concept is general and never specific - by > contrast with low-level algorithms, whose variables are always specific and > > never general - and who are incapable of real language. > > Language frames only general courses of action, algos frame only specific > courses of action. Language is about "doing" and "thinking" "things" without > > ever exactly specifying what. Algos and operating (as opposed to operator) > systems always specify what to do. > > If you are able to think vaguely and generally about "doing" "something" - > then you can do anything - if you're an algo, you can't. > > More another time. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Goertzel > Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 1:58 PM > To: AGI > Subject: Re: [agi] Universal Robotics > > These general conceptual notions seem to have nothing to do with ROS, > which is really just a nice system of software interfaces for robot > actuation and perception.... Building a ROS stack for your robot lets > your robot be controlled by the same or similar high-level code that > works for other robots with ROS stacks.... This has no direct > connection to "executive selves", etc... > > -- ben g > > On Wed, Mar 27, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> > wrote: >> Mike, >> >> No Willow isn't GI, but it's a step towards - as I think I may have said >> before, it leads to the idea of a General [Robot] Operating System - and >> not >> just General in terms of being applicable to many robot systems, but >> general >> in its "language" and framing - by contrast with all operating systems to >> date, which are actually totally specific in language and framing. All >> living creatures, arguably, have general operating systems and executive >> selves to operate them. This higher, general, executive level is totally >> missing from present computation. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Mike Archbold >> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:17 AM >> To: AGI >> Subject: Re: [agi] Universal Robotics >> >> >> I know of Willow Garage and the robot O/S, but didn't come away with >> the idea that it aspired after general intelligence in some form (?). >> >> I noticed that Universal Robotics, on their web site, dropped the >> now-derogatory "narrow" term for older AI approaches but claim their >> software is instead "broad," I think (and/or "natural"). It would be >> interesting to me to see how many of the companies on the list you >> link have aspirations or claims of general intelligence in some way. >> I think that some imply that if it isn't "preprogrammed" with rules >> then that alone makes it "general intelligence." >> >> On 3/26/13, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> The question this raises for me is: what are the top robotics companies >>> in >>> the world? >>> >>> The best I could do with a quick Google is this list of top-wiki-viewed >>> companies: >>> >>> http://top-topics.thefullwiki.org/Robotics_companies >>> >>> Anyone got something better? >>> >>> Willow Garage is one of the most interesting for me in that they are >>> trying >>> >>> to develop a multi-robot Robot Operating System and library of >>> routines/programs. >>> >>> Anyone else competing with them here? >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Mike Archbold >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:21 PM >>> To: AGI >>> Subject: [agi] Universal Robotics >>> >>> Has anyone studied what this company, Universal Robotics, is doing? >>> Their website and the wiki (seemingly written by them, as hyped-up as >>> it sounds) makes some fairly broad claims, including their "natural >>> intelligence." >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Robotics >>> >>> Historically this group is the go-to place for hype adjusting. I've >>> never read anything here by anybody impressed by any AI.... >>> >>> Mike A >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> AGI >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5 >>> Modify Your Subscription: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> AGI >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >>> Modify Your Subscription: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5 >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279 >> Modify Your Subscription: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > http://goertzel.org > > "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5 > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
