I am in agreement with John here regarding human intelligence. We are components of a distributed learning algorithm, whose accumulated intelligence far exceeds the capabilities of any one of us taken in isolation. Likewise for our cells with respect to our bodies.
Evolution is the key driver here. It's the one algorithm I know of that bootstraps intelligence from the ground up into the recursive networks you pointed out, Steve. The question remains, though: Exactly *what *is being generated by this bootstrapping process? What is it that is gained through this recursive organizational structure? Where is the value added? What can be accomplished through such a recursive organizing principle that cannot be accomplished directly? (I am trying to point the discussion in the right direction by asking the right questions.) On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:09 PM, John Rose <[email protected]> wrote: > It depends, a minimal implementation as a single cell AGI or a single cell > with a trillion duplicates AGI. I was hinting towards the latter. But here > is something else to think of – > > > > Suppose the way we see things is not really how it is. And that happens > often throughout history. Suppose that the way we see duplicates of things > is wrong. So that a trillion bacteria duplicates are actually one organism. > Change the dimensionality of the observer. It would be the same with > people. To us individual people agents look like independent entities but > if you tweak the dimensionality of the observation the whole human race > over time can appear as one continuous organism. And as far as intelligence > goes that is more correct IMO since we are multi-agent IOW one tabula rasa > human isolated from the species is not intelligent and dies immediately. > > > > Just something to think about as it may solve related issues… > > > > John > > > > *From:* Steve Richfield [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Saturday, March 28, 2015 4:19 PM > *To:* AGI > *Subject:* [agi] 1% > > > > John, et al, > > We seem to have two subjects that are merging. I started out discussing > potential halfway points - while you started out discussing single-cell > intelligence. > > Suppose for a moment there is a method and associated undiscovered > mathematics underlying intelligence, where the "minimum implementation" of > intelligence might be VERY small - like single cell. > > There is plenty of evidence of this in experiments on the lobster > stomagastric ganglion, where each cell does a specific job that has been > identified in the laboratory. However, introduce a birth defect where fewer > cells survive, and they organize differently to do the same job but less > precisely. > > The behavior of some bacteria is VERY complex, complete with seek and > avoid behaviors, eating habits, etc. > > > > Consider the following recursive definition of AGI: > > 1. Construct a minimal AGI. > > 2. Connect a bunch of them into a network. > > 3. Construct a network of the above networks. > > 4. Construct a network of the above networks. > > 5. etc. > > Perhaps the ultimate AGI program will look like a recursive factorial > computation, only replacing the multiplication with a lower level AGI. > > > > In society, we have cells, networks of cells that form regions of the > brain, networks of regions that constitute humans, networks of humans ... > > Perhaps what is missing in society is what is already there at the > cellular level?!!! > > Perhaps "all" that is now missing in AGI is a theoretical understanding of > how a single cell **IS** a complete minimum implementation of an AGI?!!! > > If true, this might bring AGI a LOT closer - and predict the failure of > present approaches. At least this deserves a serious look-see. > > Steve > > ================== > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 6:24 AM, John Rose <[email protected]> > wrote: > > 1 day ago - "Obama Administration Releases National Action Plan to Combat > Antibiotic-Resistant Bacteria" - $1.2 billion > > Very interesting. The microbes overcome everything we throw at them how > could they be intelligent? > > People laugh about the concept of microbial intelligence. By many > definitions they are more intelligent than us, we may lose this battle. > Let's see, if intelligence has mass which I'm sure no one would dispute, > and if we add up the mass of all human brains and compare that with the > mass of all related molecular microbial intelligence I would say that by > far microbes have more intelligence. Definitely. > > Or is that calculation, meant to be humorous, wrong? Intelligence doesn't > have mass... > > "Microbes have more intelligence" <=> "Microbes are more intelligent" > > At some point does "more intelligence" beat out the "more intelligent". > > John > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > AGI > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10443978-6f4c28ac > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > -- > > Full employment can be had with the stoke of a pen. Simply institute a six > hour workday. That will easily create enough new jobs to bring back full > employment. > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/248029-82d9122f>| Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription > > <http://www.listbox.com> > > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/23050605-2da819ff> | > Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> > Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
