+1 Dorian. Mark likes this. On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Dorian Aur <[email protected]> wrote:
> We need to create an infrastructure e.g. the *Institute of General > Intelligence, *elect/appoint a board of directors to manage the entire > organization*.* Only a small fraction of funding that is currently > allocated for the BRAIN Initiative or Human Brain Project in EU would > be enough to build the first hybrid system . This project can be the > bucket list for an entire generation of computer scientists / > neuroscientists whom should collaborate- our brain uses less than 30 watts > to perform all kind of "intelligent" computations. Having first completed > this step would increase our chance to deliver a more "synthetic" > approach as Colin proposed. > > > Here is the rationale: > a.Why use a digital computer to simulate/map or emulate the whole brain > • It cannot express all forms of computation that are built within > biological structure (see neuroelectrodynamics); > • Needs many megawatts to power the system (huge issue); > • Requires billions of dollars; > • Cannot generate emotion, consciousness... > • No reliable model for brain diseases. > b. Why not shape a biological structure, connect it with a digital > computer use machine learning (e.g DL) and perform all kinds of > computations - Can we build a conscious machine > http://arxiv.org/abs/1411.5224. > • Naturally, emotion, consciousness ....are expressed > • Can be used as a model for therapy for about 600 brain diseases > • Can be connected to a laptop, iPhone uses digital and biological > computation together which can make any digital computer highly interactive > • Far less amount of funding required. AGI can become fast an academic > discipline, it can attract funding not only from private companies > > My previous answers on FB > > 5.Does an AGI need to be conscious? > Yes, it has to be conscious otherwise AGI can be dangerous (see 9). > > 6.Can AGI be creative? > > If we build hybrid systems AGI can become creative > 7.Will AGI have emotions? > > Biological structure embedded in the hybrid system will allow any AGI > system to experience emotions > 8.How far off is AGI? > With current technology the first prototype can be implemented in less > than 5 years, far less than the BIG detour (2001 - 2015) > > 9.Will AGI be dangerous? > > The system needs to be conscious about its actions, otherwise it can be > dangerous > An example : the missile crisis in Cuba, less intelligent actions can lead > to an apocalypse for everyone ( it should be embedded in consciousness) > > It's time for action > > > Best, > > Dorian > > > > *Note:* EM interaction establishes communication in case of a more > powerful form of computation, five years ago we call it - > neuroelectrodynamics. A classical model or a quantum model can be used to > describe a natural phenomenon, they are our models . Almost everything > can be approximated ,simulated on digital computers only if one has the > algorithm. The simulation in this case requires a huge cost, it is highly > inefficient and in addition many characteristics developed within > biological structure are completely lost. Current trend in AGI can continue > another 5-10 years however a general loss of credibility will follow - a > less "intelligent" path. Saving the AI/AGI idea should be a priority, we > do have the technology to keep alive, grow and "connect " neurons and any > already developed algorithm (e.g AI algorithm) can be used since the > digital computer will be an important part of the hybrid system. > > > > > > > On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 7:27 AM, Steve Richfield < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Ben, >> >> I don't know what Alan's problem is, but it appears he doesn't understand >> forums in general, and this forum in particular. >> >> As Alan's first objection to threads that has been running for several >> days, Alan rises up to request that the subject be killed!!! This is absurd. >> >> The whole purpose of threads is for people to follow the ones they are >> interested in, while ignoring the others. Apparently Alan is unable to >> participate in this very simple process. >> >> The bases for Alan's request are also absurd as explained below. >> >> On Thu, May 14, 2015 at 6:07 AM, Alan Grimes <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> I'm about three days away from formally requesting a killthread on this >>> EM fields crap. >>> >> >> Ben, you might want to think about moderating Alan. >> >>> >>> 1. Electromagnetism has been Well Understood (tm) for about 140 years >>> now. >>> >> >> So what. This doesn't seem to be an issue. >> >> >>> 2. By [nearly] all accounts, EM fields in the brain are secondary to its >>> operation. >>> >> >> What accounts? >> >> >>> 3. Neural Science is a well established field that runs parallel to AGI >>> and, yes, they do VERY careful science. >>> >> >> You obviously have never worked in a neuroscience lab. However, others in >> this discussion, including myself, HAVE worked in these labs and know the >> severe limitations of what people think they know about how neurons work. >> >> >>> 4. AGI is not, formally, a science. >> >> >> I can't speak for the others here, but I suspect that most people here >> agree, but believe that it should become a science once we know enough to >> talk about the prospective internals of an AGI system. >> >> >>> It is a branch of engineering. >>> >> >> B.S. If this were true, computers would have been thinking for decades by >> now. There is presently NO recognizable science supporting AGI. AGI has yet >> to rise to being science, let alone rising to be engineering based on >> science. >> >> 5. In the interests of getting things done, simplifications have to be >>> made wherever possible. >>> >> >> So what? This doesn't seem to be an issue. The issue here is determining >> what is essential, and what can be "simplified". There are many opinions, >> including yours, none of which have significant evidence to support them. >> >> >>> 6. We are not trying to simulate a brain, we are trying to identify what >>> characteristics are actually required to create a thinking machine. >>> >> >> Agreed. So what? >> >> >>> 7. The standard of evidence, at this point, to indicate some kind of >>> non-Turing computation is required to produce thinking is >>> extraordinarily high at this point. >>> >> >> "Turing computation" isn't really a well defined term, e.g. does it >> include analog computation? >> >> I have posted in the past regarding the potential need for bidirectional >> computation in AGI, which can be simulated on Turing systems with a loss in >> speed which is proportional to the logarithm of system size. If >> bidirectional computation proves to be needed, than Turing systems may >> indeed NOT be up to AGI. Fortunately there are non-Turing approaches to >> bidirectional computing. >> >> Note that Colin's proposal also includes bidirectional computing, though >> we haven't yet discussed that. >> >> There is a pretty strong case for bidirectional computing, so don't >> clutch your Turing machine too closely. >> >> 8. Once AGI is created it is highly probable that it could be further >>> enhanced by means of mystical physics, ie quantum fields, and stuff, but >>> right now it's only a distraction. >>> >> >> ONLY if "mystical physics" proves to be unnecessary. I have seen NO hard >> evidence either way. >> >> >>> 9. The brain may indeed utilize mystical physics to some extent, we >>> should be extremely cautious about brain emulation, even if you want to >>> stick your head in the sand about the identity issue. >>> >> >> We are a loooooong way from brain emulation, but it would sure be nice to >> be able to emulate a single neuron that can do ALL of the things our own >> neurons do - fast learning, abandoning useless functions, reducing power >> demands for slow/rare phenomena, etc. - all things that an AGI will also >> have to do. >> >> 10. I have some pretty strong hypothesii about how the brain works but >>> I'm frustrated by my inability to test those hypothesii for lack of a >>> simulation environment or a robot. >> >> >> Join the club. Oh, I see you already have. >> >> I don't have either. I have been >>> stuck at this state of not having a testing platform for ten years >> >> >> Only ten years? I can see you are a newbie at this. I have had this same >> frustration for >40 years. >> >> >>> and >>> it's driving me nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >> >> >> THIS explains a LOT ... B-:D> >> >> >>> (this is what >>> my minecraft post was about...) I saved up about $12,000 out of a >>> required $16,000 to get a Nao but then I've been unemployed for three >>> years and have no job prospects in this awful economy. =((((((( >>> 11. Meanwhile, I have not been chewing up list bandwidth talking about >>> how great my untested theory is or spending much time deriding other >>> list participants. >>> >> >> There ARE other paths, e.g. invent something relating to AGI, get a >> patent, find someone to promote your invention, find a VC, start a company, >> etc. >> >>> >>> BTW: Hplus-talk mailing list seems to be down and the admin forwarder is >>> down too. >>> >>> IQ is a measure of how stupid you feel. >>> >> >> Aha, you very obviously do NOT feel stupid at all here, so, by your own >> measure, your IQ must be VERY low. >> >> OK, sorry (but not very sorry) I beat you up here, but understand that it >> is often quite difficult to examine possibilities that violate your world >> model, which is obviously your difficulty here. Just because something is >> obviously "crap" doesn't mean that it is crap. If you can't deal with this, >> then stand aside for others here who CAN deal with it. >> >> Steve >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/17795807-366cfa2a> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/27079473-66e47b26> | > Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> > Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Regards, Mark Seveland ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
