How about we have a discussion sometime this weekend? We have some serious timezone issues to work around..
On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 10:48 PM, Mark Seveland <[email protected]> wrote: > Just a suggestion. Google+ Meetups are a good way for everyone to meet > each other, and in live voice and/or video chat discuss topics. > > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Colin Hales <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Dorian et. al., >> I am having trouble getting time to properly participate here because of >> family stuff and my other commitments. I'm checking in to acknowledge >> how encouraging it is to see the activity is ongoing, and the birth of a >> possible paper that might underpin whatever this IGI initiative turns into. >> >> I'd like to focus my efforts on the paper primarily as a way to discover >> IGI directions. So if you could bear with a patchy contribution from me for >> a little while it would be greatly appreciated. I have a particularly >> difficult week ahead of me. There's no huge crashing need for speed here, >> so I'm hoping slow and steady might be OK. >> >> Whatever form this website takes: fantastic. It may only ever be a 'line >> in the sand'. But it's a significant one in the greater scheme of AGI >> futures and really good to see after being sidelined for so long. Yay! >> >> cheers >> Colin Hales >> >> >> >> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Mike Archbold <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Why don't you just call it "AI" and if somebody asks THEN you can >>> clarify it? I mean, why be arcane about it? One of the reasons I got >>> into AI is because I don't like the way that people create things that >>> are intentionally difficult and known only to the in-group. Now here >>> you go with a boatload of new acronyms, known only to the select tiny >>> group that knows the secret meaning behind it. So, I guess I am >>> getting into Alan Grimes vent space with this. >>> >>> On 5/20/15, Dorian Aur <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > *Colin et al,* >>> > >>> > >>> > A possible plan for H-AGI towards S-AGI paper >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > *Hybrid artificial general intelligent systems towards S-AGI* >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > *Introduction* – a short presentation of AI systems and general goal to >>> > build human general intelligence >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Why H-AGI? >>> > >>> > - Present different forms of computation , ( particular forms of >>> > computation analog, digital -Turing machines ) >>> > - Computations in the brain (examples of computations that are >>> hardly >>> > replicated on digital computers) >>> > - H-AGI can include all forms of computations, algorithmic / >>> > non-algorithmic, analog, digital,* quantum and classical *since >>> > biological structure is incorporated in the system >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > *Steps to develop H-AGI* >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > - A. Build the structure using either natural stem cells or >>> induced >>> > pluripotent cells a three-dimensional vascularized structure, test >>> 3D >>> > printing possibilities >>> > - Shape the structure and control spatial organization of cells >>> > - Detect the need of neurotrophic factors, nutrients and oxygen >>> ...use >>> > nanosensor devices, carbon nanotubes... >>> > - Regulate, control the entire phenomenon using a computer >>> interface, >>> > ability to use combine analog/digital and biophysical computations >>> > >>> > B. Train the hybrid system >>> > >>> > - Enhance bidirectional communication between biological structure >>> and >>> > computers >>> > - Create and use a virtual world to provide accelerated training, >>> use >>> > machine learning, DL, digital/algorithmic AI or AGI if something >>> is >>> > developed on digital systems >>> > - The interactive training system should also shape the evolution of >>> > biological structure, natural language and visual information can >>> be >>> > progressively included >>> > >>> > see details in Can we build a conscious machine, >>> > http://arxiv.org/abs/1411.5224 >>> > >>> > >>> > *Goals of H-AGI* >>> > >>> > H-AGI can be seen as a transitional step required to understand which >>> > parts can be fully replicated in a synthetic form to build a more >>> powerful >>> > system, >>> > >>> > · Natural language processing, robotics... >>> > >>> > · Space exploration, colonization..... etc >>> > >>> > · Techniques for therapy (brain diseases, cancer ....) since we >>> will >>> > learn how to shape biological structure >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Dorian >>> > >>> > >>> > PS This brief presentation may also provide an idea about possible >>> > collaboration list 1- list 3 >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Mike Archbold <[email protected]> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> >> > A summary ....we are looking at the idea that there are 2 >>> fundamental >>> >> kinds >>> >> > of putative AGI (1) & (3), and their hybrid (2) that forms a third >>> >> approach >>> >> > as follows: >>> >> > >>> >> > (1) C-AGI computer substrate only. Neuromorphic equivalents of >>> it. >>> >> > (2) H-AGI hybrid of (1) and (3). The inorganic version is a new >>> >> > kind >>> >> > of neuromorphic chip. The organic version has ... erm... organics in >>> >> > it. >>> >> > (3) S-AGI synthetic AGI. organic or inorganic. Natural brain >>> >> > physics >>> >> > only. No computer. >>> >> > >>> >> > (aside: S-AGI just came out of my fingers. I hope this is OK, >>> Dorian!) >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> This is a cool idea, somewhat mind boggling in its possibilities. >>> >> Cool though! >>> >> >>> >> Personally I would favor something more like "EM-AGI" for >>> >> electromagnetic AGI. I mean, I don't understand the details of the >>> >> approach, only the generalities. But, "S" seems a bit vague/ambiguous >>> >> while EM hits it more or less on target IMHO. >>> >> >>> >> MIke A >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > Think this way: What we have now is 100% computer. S-AGI is 100% >>> >> > natural >>> >> > physics (organic or inorganic). H-AGI is set somewhere in between. >>> >> > It's >>> >> > the level of computer computation/natural computation that is at >>> issue. >>> >> All >>> >> > are computation. >>> >> > >>> >> > The human brain is a natural version of (3) with a >>> neuronal/astrocyte >>> >> > substrate. (3) has no computer whatever in it. it retains all the >>> >> natural >>> >> > physics (whatever that is). H-AGI targets the inclusion of the >>> >> > essential >>> >> > natural brain physics in the substrate of (2) and to incorporate (1) >>> >> > computer-substrates and software to an extent to be determined. In >>> my >>> >> case >>> >> > an H-AGI would be inorganic. Others see differently. >>> >> > >>> >> > Where you might have a stake in this? >>> >> > >>> >> > The history of AGI can be summed up as an experiment that seeks to >>> see >>> >> > if >>> >> > the role of (1) C-AGI as a brain is fundamentally indistinguishable >>> >> > from >>> >> > (3) S-AGI under all conditions. That is the hypothesis. The 65 year >>> old >>> >> bet >>> >> > that has attracted 100% of the investment to date. H-AGI does not >>> make >>> >> that >>> >> > presupposition and seeks to contrast (1) and (3) in revealing ways >>> that >>> >> > then allow us to speak authoritatively about the (1)/(3) >>> relationship >>> >> > in >>> >> > AGI potential. Only then will we really understand the difference >>> >> > between >>> >> > (1) and (3). So far that difference is entirely and intuition. A >>> good >>> >> one. >>> >> > But only intuition. Its time for that intuition to be turned into >>> >> science. >>> >> > Experiments in (1) have ruled to date. Now we seek to do some (2)... >>> >> > E.E. >>> >> > we have 65 years of 'control' subject. H-AGI builds the first 'test' >>> >> > subject. >>> >> > >>> >> > How about this? >>> >> > >>> >> > What would be super cool is if this mighty AGI beast you intend >>> making >>> >> > could be turned into the brain of a robot. Then we could contrast >>> what >>> >> > it >>> >> > does with what an IGI candidate brain does in an identical robot in >>> the >>> >> > same test. That kind of testing vision (as far off as it may seem) >>> is a >>> >> > potential way your work and the IGI might interface. Which candidate >>> >> robot >>> >> > best encounters radical novelty, without any human >>> >> intervention/involvement >>> >> > whatever? .... is a really good question. To do this test you'd not >>> >> > need >>> >> to >>> >> > reveal anything about its workings. Observed robot behaviour is >>> >> > decisive. >>> >> > >>> >> > It seems to me that whatever venture you plan, it might be wise to >>> keep >>> >> an >>> >> > eye on any (2)/(3) approaches. IGI or not. Because it is directly >>> >> informing >>> >> > expectations of outcomes in (1). We are currently asking the >>> question >>> >> "*If >>> >> > H-AGI were to be championed into existence, what would the first >>> >> > vehicle >>> >> > for that look like?*" If the enthusiasm maintains it will be >>> sketched >>> >> into >>> >> > a web page and we'll see what it tells us and what to do next. It >>> may >>> >> halt. >>> >> > It may go. I don't know. Worth a shot? You bet. >>> >> > >>> >> > With your (1) C-AGI glasses firmly strapped to your head, your >>> wisdom >>> >> > at >>> >> > all stages in this would be well received, whatever the messages. >>> So if >>> >> you >>> >> > have time to keep an eye on happenings, I for one would appreciate >>> it. >>> >> > >>> >> > regards >>> >> > >>> >> > Colin Hales >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Peter Voss <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >> Thanks for asking. Haven’t followed the IGI discussions. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Is this about non-computer based approaches to AGI? If so, I don’t >>> >> think >>> >> >> I have anything positive to contribute. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> More generally, non-profit orgs need strong focus and champions. >>> And >>> >> >> specific goals. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> *From:* Benjamin Kapp [mailto:[email protected]] >>> >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:23 PM >>> >> >> *To:* AGI >>> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [agi] Institute of General Intelligence (IGI) >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Mr. Voss, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Given your understanding of the AGI community do you believe an IGI >>> >> would >>> >> >> be redundant? Would your organization be open to collaborating >>> with >>> >> >> the >>> >> >> IGI? Do you have any advice for how we could be successful in >>> >> >> starting >>> >> >> up >>> >> >> this organization? Perhaps you would be open to being a member of >>> the >>> >> >> board? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Peter Voss <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Not something that can be adequately covered in a few words, but…. >>> >> “We’re >>> >> >> building a fully integrated, top-down & bottom-up, real-time, >>> adaptive >>> >> >> knowledge (& skill) representation, learning and reasoning engine. >>> >> >> We’re >>> >> >> using a combination of graph representation and NN techniques >>> overlaid >>> >> >> with >>> >> >> fuzzy, adaptive rule systems” – ha! >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Here again are links for some clues: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> http://www.kurzweilai.net/essentials-of-general-intelligence-the-direct-path-to-agi >>> >> >> >>> >> >> http://www.realagi.com/index.html >>> >> >> >>> >> >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/RealAGI/ >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> *From:* Benjamin Kapp [mailto:[email protected]] >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Mr. Voss, >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Since you are the founder I'm certain you know what agi-3's >>> >> >> methodology >>> >> >> is. In a few words (maybe more?) could you share with us what that >>> >> >> is? >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Peter Voss <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> *>*http://www.agi-3.com They just glue together anything and >>> >> everything >>> >> >> that works. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Actually, no. We have a very specific theory of AGI and >>> architecture >>> >> >> >>> >> >> *Peter Voss* >>> >> >> >>> >> >> *Founder, AGI Innovations Inc.* >>> >> >> >>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> >> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/26973278-698fd9ee >>> >| >>> >> >> Modify >>> >> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> >> >> >>> >> >> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> >> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/231420-b637a2b0>| >>> >> Modify >>> >> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> >> >> >>> >> >> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives < >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> >> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11721311-20a65d4a> >>> | >>> >> >> Modify >>> >> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> >>> >> >> Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > ------------------------------------------- >>> >> > AGI >>> >> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> >> > RSS Feed: >>> >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >>> >> > Modify Your Subscription: >>> >> > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> >> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> ------------------------------------------- >>> >> AGI >>> >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> >> RSS Feed: >>> >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/17795807-366cfa2a >>> >> Modify Your Subscription: >>> >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------- >>> > AGI >>> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> > RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >>> > Modify Your Subscription: >>> > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> > >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> AGI >>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11721311-20a65d4a >>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/27079473-66e47b26> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > > > -- > Regards, > Mark Seveland > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/26973278-698fd9ee> | > Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> > Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
