watson is as much or more AGI as OpenCOG applying same core to different domains and getting good results for-example jeopardy, cooking and medicine.
Dorian Aur <[email protected]> wrote: >Ben, very useful survey, excellent key points: >1.Training on text based models does not generate AGI - IBM's Watson >2.The essential part of the system that was creating AGI would be my >brain, >not google >Conclusion: *Wiring together a bunch of non AGI systems may never >generate >AGI* > >Mike: "I don't like the way that people create things that are >intentionally difficult and known only to the in-group." >You are right, we should try to avoid anything that is too >specific/specialized (e.g biological engineering pluripotent cells >and >related topics) it makes little sense in other fields > >1. The paper should present our general vision, simple sentences easy >to >understand in computer science or engineering >2. The basic idea is simple - working on a "reduced model" of >computation >(digital -Turing) may never lead to AGI >In addition to algorithms that can run on digital computers one can >use >biological building blocks to build a "full model of computation". >One >can shape and "program" a biological structure and "connected" it with >digital computers to develop human like intelligence. *It will be the >new >tool for discovery, far more powerful than any digital system alone.* >3. At least two phases are needed to construct "a mind" using >biological >building blocks - see the two step implementation (A &B) they need to >be >briefly mentioned. Details regarding other sub-steps in biological >engineering implementation should make the object of a >more specialized paper > >At this point in time everyone can understand that we need to solve a >technological problem. Many academic labs are highly specialized and >can >be our collaborators. They may have the knowledge however they do not >have >enough resources and their main goal is not to pursue bigger >technological >projects ( see similar projects- Manhattan Project -gov, German Rocket > von Braun's technology -gov, computer and iPhone Job's technology - >private, Venter's technology - private). > > >Why we may need political lobbying? They've strongly misled that our >brain can be thoroughly mapped and fully simulated on digital >computers > >Note: The two step implementation is just one way to approach the >development of H-AGI > > > >On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 7:48 PM, Mark Seveland <[email protected]> >wrote: > >> Just a suggestion. Google+ Meetups are a good way for everyone to >meet >> each other, and in live voice and/or video chat discuss topics. >> >> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 7:33 PM, Colin Hales <[email protected]> >wrote: >> >>> Hi Dorian et. al., >>> I am having trouble getting time to properly participate here >because of >>> family stuff and my other commitments. I'm checking in to >acknowledge >>> how encouraging it is to see the activity is ongoing, and the birth >of a >>> possible paper that might underpin whatever this IGI initiative >turns into. >>> >>> I'd like to focus my efforts on the paper primarily as a way to >discover >>> IGI directions. So if you could bear with a patchy contribution from >me for >>> a little while it would be greatly appreciated. I have a >particularly >>> difficult week ahead of me. There's no huge crashing need for speed >here, >>> so I'm hoping slow and steady might be OK. >>> >>> Whatever form this website takes: fantastic. It may only ever be a >'line >>> in the sand'. But it's a significant one in the greater scheme of >AGI >>> futures and really good to see after being sidelined for so long. >Yay! >>> >>> cheers >>> Colin Hales >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 10:07 AM, Mike Archbold ><[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Why don't you just call it "AI" and if somebody asks THEN you can >>>> clarify it? I mean, why be arcane about it? One of the reasons I >got >>>> into AI is because I don't like the way that people create things >that >>>> are intentionally difficult and known only to the in-group. Now >here >>>> you go with a boatload of new acronyms, known only to the select >tiny >>>> group that knows the secret meaning behind it. So, I guess I am >>>> getting into Alan Grimes vent space with this. >>>> >>>> On 5/20/15, Dorian Aur <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > *Colin et al,* >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > A possible plan for H-AGI towards S-AGI paper >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > *Hybrid artificial general intelligent systems towards S-AGI* >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > *Introduction* – a short presentation of AI systems and general >goal to >>>> > build human general intelligence >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Why H-AGI? >>>> > >>>> > - Present different forms of computation , ( particular forms >of >>>> > computation analog, digital -Turing machines ) >>>> > - Computations in the brain (examples of computations that are >>>> hardly >>>> > replicated on digital computers) >>>> > - H-AGI can include all forms of computations, algorithmic / >>>> > non-algorithmic, analog, digital,* quantum and classical >*since >>>> > biological structure is incorporated in the system >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > *Steps to develop H-AGI* >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > - A. Build the structure using either natural stem cells or >>>> induced >>>> > pluripotent cells a three-dimensional vascularized structure, >test >>>> 3D >>>> > printing possibilities >>>> > - Shape the structure and control spatial organization of >cells >>>> > - Detect the need of neurotrophic factors, nutrients and >oxygen >>>> ...use >>>> > nanosensor devices, carbon nanotubes... >>>> > - Regulate, control the entire phenomenon using a computer >>>> interface, >>>> > ability to use combine analog/digital and biophysical >computations >>>> > >>>> > B. Train the hybrid system >>>> > >>>> > - Enhance bidirectional communication between biological >structure >>>> and >>>> > computers >>>> > - Create and use a virtual world to provide accelerated >training, >>>> use >>>> > machine learning, DL, digital/algorithmic AI or AGI if >something >>>> is >>>> > developed on digital systems >>>> > - The interactive training system should also shape the >evolution of >>>> > biological structure, natural language and visual information >can >>>> be >>>> > progressively included >>>> > >>>> > see details in Can we build a conscious machine, >>>> > http://arxiv.org/abs/1411.5224 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > *Goals of H-AGI* >>>> > >>>> > H-AGI can be seen as a transitional step required to understand >which >>>> > parts can be fully replicated in a synthetic form to build a >more >>>> powerful >>>> > system, >>>> > >>>> > · Natural language processing, robotics... >>>> > >>>> > · Space exploration, colonization..... etc >>>> > >>>> > · Techniques for therapy (brain diseases, cancer ....) >since we >>>> will >>>> > learn how to shape biological structure >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > Dorian >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > PS This brief presentation may also provide an idea about >possible >>>> > collaboration list 1- list 3 >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 11:20 PM, Mike Archbold ><[email protected]> >>>> > wrote: >>>> > >>>> >> > A summary ....we are looking at the idea that there are 2 >>>> fundamental >>>> >> kinds >>>> >> > of putative AGI (1) & (3), and their hybrid (2) that forms a >third >>>> >> approach >>>> >> > as follows: >>>> >> > >>>> >> > (1) C-AGI computer substrate only. Neuromorphic >equivalents of >>>> it. >>>> >> > (2) H-AGI hybrid of (1) and (3). The inorganic version is >a new >>>> >> > kind >>>> >> > of neuromorphic chip. The organic version has ... erm... >organics in >>>> >> > it. >>>> >> > (3) S-AGI synthetic AGI. organic or inorganic. Natural >brain >>>> >> > physics >>>> >> > only. No computer. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > (aside: S-AGI just came out of my fingers. I hope this is OK, >>>> Dorian!) >>>> >> > >>>> >> >>>> >> This is a cool idea, somewhat mind boggling in its >possibilities. >>>> >> Cool though! >>>> >> >>>> >> Personally I would favor something more like "EM-AGI" for >>>> >> electromagnetic AGI. I mean, I don't understand the details of >the >>>> >> approach, only the generalities. But, "S" seems a bit >vague/ambiguous >>>> >> while EM hits it more or less on target IMHO. >>>> >> >>>> >> MIke A >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Think this way: What we have now is 100% computer. S-AGI is >100% >>>> >> > natural >>>> >> > physics (organic or inorganic). H-AGI is set somewhere in >between. >>>> >> > It's >>>> >> > the level of computer computation/natural computation that is >at >>>> issue. >>>> >> All >>>> >> > are computation. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > The human brain is a natural version of (3) with a >>>> neuronal/astrocyte >>>> >> > substrate. (3) has no computer whatever in it. it retains all >the >>>> >> natural >>>> >> > physics (whatever that is). H-AGI targets the inclusion of the >>>> >> > essential >>>> >> > natural brain physics in the substrate of (2) and to >incorporate (1) >>>> >> > computer-substrates and software to an extent to be >determined. In >>>> my >>>> >> case >>>> >> > an H-AGI would be inorganic. Others see differently. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Where you might have a stake in this? >>>> >> > >>>> >> > The history of AGI can be summed up as an experiment that >seeks to >>>> see >>>> >> > if >>>> >> > the role of (1) C-AGI as a brain is fundamentally >indistinguishable >>>> >> > from >>>> >> > (3) S-AGI under all conditions. That is the hypothesis. The 65 >year >>>> old >>>> >> bet >>>> >> > that has attracted 100% of the investment to date. H-AGI does >not >>>> make >>>> >> that >>>> >> > presupposition and seeks to contrast (1) and (3) in revealing >ways >>>> that >>>> >> > then allow us to speak authoritatively about the (1)/(3) >>>> relationship >>>> >> > in >>>> >> > AGI potential. Only then will we really understand the >difference >>>> >> > between >>>> >> > (1) and (3). So far that difference is entirely and intuition. >A >>>> good >>>> >> one. >>>> >> > But only intuition. Its time for that intuition to be turned >into >>>> >> science. >>>> >> > Experiments in (1) have ruled to date. Now we seek to do some >(2)... >>>> >> > E.E. >>>> >> > we have 65 years of 'control' subject. H-AGI builds the first >'test' >>>> >> > subject. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > How about this? >>>> >> > >>>> >> > What would be super cool is if this mighty AGI beast you >intend >>>> making >>>> >> > could be turned into the brain of a robot. Then we could >contrast >>>> what >>>> >> > it >>>> >> > does with what an IGI candidate brain does in an identical >robot in >>>> the >>>> >> > same test. That kind of testing vision (as far off as it may >seem) >>>> is a >>>> >> > potential way your work and the IGI might interface. Which >candidate >>>> >> robot >>>> >> > best encounters radical novelty, without any human >>>> >> intervention/involvement >>>> >> > whatever? .... is a really good question. To do this test >you'd not >>>> >> > need >>>> >> to >>>> >> > reveal anything about its workings. Observed robot behaviour >is >>>> >> > decisive. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > It seems to me that whatever venture you plan, it might be >wise to >>>> keep >>>> >> an >>>> >> > eye on any (2)/(3) approaches. IGI or not. Because it is >directly >>>> >> informing >>>> >> > expectations of outcomes in (1). We are currently asking the >>>> question >>>> >> "*If >>>> >> > H-AGI were to be championed into existence, what would the >first >>>> >> > vehicle >>>> >> > for that look like?*" If the enthusiasm maintains it will be >>>> sketched >>>> >> into >>>> >> > a web page and we'll see what it tells us and what to do next. >It >>>> may >>>> >> halt. >>>> >> > It may go. I don't know. Worth a shot? You bet. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > With your (1) C-AGI glasses firmly strapped to your head, your >>>> wisdom >>>> >> > at >>>> >> > all stages in this would be well received, whatever the >messages. >>>> So if >>>> >> you >>>> >> > have time to keep an eye on happenings, I for one would >appreciate >>>> it. >>>> >> > >>>> >> > regards >>>> >> > >>>> >> > Colin Hales >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 6:58 AM, Peter Voss ><[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> > >>>> >> >> Thanks for asking. Haven’t followed the IGI discussions. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Is this about non-computer based approaches to AGI? If so, I >don’t >>>> >> think >>>> >> >> I have anything positive to contribute. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> More generally, non-profit orgs need strong focus and >champions. >>>> And >>>> >> >> specific goals. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> *From:* Benjamin Kapp [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> >> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 19, 2015 12:23 PM >>>> >> >> *To:* AGI >>>> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [agi] Institute of General Intelligence (IGI) >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Mr. Voss, >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Given your understanding of the AGI community do you believe >an IGI >>>> >> would >>>> >> >> be redundant? Would your organization be open to >collaborating >>>> with >>>> >> >> the >>>> >> >> IGI? Do you have any advice for how we could be successful >in >>>> >> >> starting >>>> >> >> up >>>> >> >> this organization? Perhaps you would be open to being a >member of >>>> the >>>> >> >> board? >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Peter Voss ><[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Not something that can be adequately covered in a few words, >but…. >>>> >> “We’re >>>> >> >> building a fully integrated, top-down & bottom-up, real-time, >>>> adaptive >>>> >> >> knowledge (& skill) representation, learning and reasoning >engine. >>>> >> >> We’re >>>> >> >> using a combination of graph representation and NN techniques >>>> overlaid >>>> >> >> with >>>> >> >> fuzzy, adaptive rule systems” – ha! >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Here again are links for some clues: >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >>>> >http://www.kurzweilai.net/essentials-of-general-intelligence-the-direct-path-to-agi >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> http://www.realagi.com/index.html >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/RealAGI/ >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> *From:* Benjamin Kapp [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Mr. Voss, >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Since you are the founder I'm certain you know what agi-3's >>>> >> >> methodology >>>> >> >> is. In a few words (maybe more?) could you share with us >what that >>>> >> >> is? >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 1:24 PM, Peter Voss ><[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> *>*http://www.agi-3.com They just glue together anything and >>>> >> everything >>>> >> >> that works. >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> Actually, no. We have a very specific theory of AGI and >>>> architecture >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> *Peter Voss* >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> *Founder, AGI Innovations Inc.* >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives ><https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>> >> >> ><https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/26973278-698fd9ee >>>> >| >>>> >> >> Modify >>>> >> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives ><https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>> >> >> ><https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/231420-b637a2b0>| >>>> >> Modify >>>> >> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives < >>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>> >> >> ><https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11721311-20a65d4a> >>>> | >>>> >> >> Modify >>>> >> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> >>>> >> >> Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > ------------------------------------------- >>>> >> > AGI >>>> >> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>>> >> > RSS Feed: >>>> >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >>>> >> > Modify Your Subscription: >>>> >> > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>>> >> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>>> >> > >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------- >>>> >> AGI >>>> >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>>> >> RSS Feed: >>>> >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/17795807-366cfa2a >>>> >> Modify Your Subscription: >>>> >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>>> >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > ------------------------------------------- >>>> > AGI >>>> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>>> > RSS Feed: >>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >>>> > Modify Your Subscription: >>>> > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>>> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>>> > >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>> AGI >>>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>>> RSS Feed: >>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11721311-20a65d4a >>>> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>>> >>> >>> *AGI* | Archives ><https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/27079473-66e47b26> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Regards, >> Mark Seveland >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/17795807-366cfa2a> | >> Modify >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> >> Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > > >------------------------------------------- >AGI >Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >RSS Feed: >https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/5037279-a88c7a6d >Modify Your Subscription: >https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com Sent from my Android device with Emails. ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
