Mike, you seem to have misinterpreted my statement. Perception is certainly not 'passive', as it can be described as active inference using a (mostly actively) learned world model. Inference is done on many levels, and could integrate information from various abstraction levels, so I don't see it as an isolated layer.
On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 6:27 PM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Durk, > > Absolutely right about the need for what is essentially an imaginative > level of mind. But wrong in thinking: > > "Vision may be classified under "Narrow" AI" > > You seem to be treating this extra "audiovisual perception layer" as a > purely passive layer. The latest psychology & philosophy recognize that this > is in fact a level of v. active thought and intelligence. And our > culture is only starting to understand imaginative thought generally. > > Just to begin reorienting your thinking here, I suggest you consider how > much time people spend on audiovisual information (esp. tv) vs purely > symbolic information (books). And allow for how much and how rapidly even > academic thinking is going audiovisual. > > Know of anyone trying to give computers that extra layer? I saw some vague > reference about this recently.of which I have only a confused memory. > > > > Durk:Although I symphathize with some of Hawkin's general ideas about > unsupervised learning, his current HTM framework is unimpressive in > comparison with state-of-the-art techniques such as Hinton's RBM's, LeCun's > convolutional nets and the promising low-entropy coding variants. > > > But it should be quite clear that such methods could eventually be very > handy for AGI. For example, many of you would agree that a reliable, > computationally affordable solution to Vision is a crucial factor for AGI: > much of the world's information, even on the internet, is encoded in > audiovisual information. Extracting (sub)symbolic semantics from these > sources would open a world of learning data to symbolic systems. > > An audiovisual perception layer generates semantic interpretation on the > (sub)symbolic level. How could a symbolic engine ever reason about the real > world without access to such information? > > Vision may be classified under "Narrow" AI, but I reckon that an AGI can > never understand our physical world without a reliable perceptual system. > Therefore, perception is essential for any AGI reasoning about physical > entities! > > Greets, Durk > > On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Derek Zahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > It seems like a reasonable and not uncommon idea that an AI could be > > built as a mostly-hierarchical autoassiciative memory. As you point out, > > it's not so different from Hawkins's ideas. Neighboring "pixels" will > > correlate in space and time; "features" such as edges should become > > principle components given enough data, and so on. There is a bunch of such > > work on self-organizing the early visual system like this. > > > > That overall concept doesn't get you very far though; the trick is to > > make it work past the first few rather obvious feature extraction stages of > > sensory data, and to account for things like episodic memory, language use, > > goal-directed behavior, and all other cognitive activity that is not just > > statistical categorization. > > > > I sympathize with your approach and wish you luck. If you think you > > have something that produce more than Hawkins has with his HTM, please > > explain it with enough precision that we can understand the details. > > > > ------------------------------ > > *agi* | Archives <http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > > <http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > > Modify<http://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > > <http://www.listbox.com> > > > > ------------------------------ > *agi* | Archives <http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<http://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > > ------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: 3/29/2008 > 5:02 PM > > ------------------------------ > *agi* | Archives <http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<http://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
