Mike, If you are interested in this line of inquiry, maybe we could devise some on-line experimentation in the line of the ESP Game to find out if any common patterning really takes place. We would need some working hypothesis. My guess is that socio-cultural factors, like native language, play a more significant role in the emergence of common patterning, if it take place, than some fundamental property of memory organization. So demographic information would be needed o verify this possibility. The goal of the game should be carefully thought out, though. The difference between "naming the first thing to come to your mind" and "trying to match someone else choice" certainly would affect the result of the experiment.
[]'s Acilio On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Acilio, > > Yes I'd checked on mentalism. And I take all your points. But that there is > any shared culture here suggests that there must be some substance to the > claims, which of course would need scientific investigation, if none has > been done already. > > I find this stuff exciting precisely because a large part of scientific > discovery is finding clues - and often in unusual places. Darwin, for > example, looked to the scientifically unusual area of breeding for clues > about evolution. Mentalism may offer valid clues here. *If* there are common > patterns of association, then they should reveal something about the > organization of memory. > > > Mike, > > Just some clarification. When a mention "mentalism" i refer to the > performing arts, not the brach of psychologic studies. > > The known facts I mentioned are found in the mentalist literature and > confirmed only by the experience of the mentalists and magicians of > that community. Often they claim to base their acts on scientific > studies but fail to present any bibliografical reference. As I've > never been able to track down a single controlled study to confirm > these claims, I deem any number (usually very high) they give to be > bogus ;) Also those tricks usually are not presented in the crude form > as on the video. A good performer usually have a fallback plan for > when the averaging fails. > > My reply just a attempt to alert you that most of those tricks are > based on chance and that I think it isn't a good idea to base > discussions on properties of mind on them. Of course, it could inspire > some controlled experimentation on association. > > -- > []´s > Acilio. > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> Acilio, >> >> Many thanks for a v. informative reply. But as you indicate it's why >> people >> have these associations that is the most interesting part. (Do you BTW >> have >> or know of any percentages attached to these strongest associations?) >> >> All of this is interesting because it begs fundamental questions about how >> memory/information is organized in the brain, and recalled. These common >> associations seem to me to present tantalising clues. >> >> With "animal...in jungle" - "lion" seems to me likely to come up because >> probably the most *frequently* associated animal. >> >> But I'm not sure whether that applies to the rest. I wouldn't imagine >> "carrot" to be the most commonly mentioned vegetable. >> >> One possibility that occurs is that carrot and celery may be the simplest >> *shaped* veg. >> >> Perhaps "7" is the most common single digit, because it's the emotionally >> *favourite* number. >> >> But I wouldn't imagine again that "37" fits any of the above criteria. >> >> Are there any speculations or theories about this, and does anyone have >> alternative ideas here? >> >> >> Acilio: >> >> >>> My question is: how do they know your vegetable association? >> >> And if I told you that if you didn't answer "CARROT", odds are you >> choose "CELERY"? >> >> Associating the result experiment with the math questions is the only >> association taking place here. It's caused by the distracting >> suggestion on the title ""Freaky Math Trick". >> >> What is going on is averaging. It's a well kown fact used in the >> mentalism community that most english speaking people when asked to >> the first thing that comes into their mind when you say; 'vegetable' >> will say 'carrot', if not they will say 'celery'. >> These are other known facts: >> - when asked to name a single digit number, most peoplewill pick 7. >> - when asked to name a 2 digit odd number under 50, with no two digits >> the same, most people will pick 37. >> - when asked to pick a 2 digit even number between 50 and 99, with no >> two digits the same,most people will pick 68. >> >> Try this experiment: repeat the same procedure of the video, but >> instead of asking for a vegetable, ask for an 'an animal that lives in >> the jungle'. Most people will answer 'Lion' even though lions don't >> live in the jungle. >> >> The sequence math questions are used just to habituate people to a >> simple pattern questions, to clear their minds of any other thing they >> may be thinking of and allows the averaging to work. You coul use any >> other simple sequence for that. >> >> Now, why people on average choose those answers is a whole other story >> >> -- >> []´s >> Acilio. >> > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- []´s Acilio. ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=120640061-aded06 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
