I think psychedelics and the psychedelic experience are much more complicated than most people realize and you only go into a small instance of their complexity. However I'm not sure how useful they will be in trying to build intelligence on a computer. Computers can't take psychedelics, psychedelics are substrate dependent, so much so that they affect humans differently. Hypothetically we could design psychedelics for computers but I don't think that would be a good idea.
On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Since I assume Ben, as well as a lot of the rest of us, want the AGI > movement to receive respectability in the academic and particularly in the > funding community, it is probably best that other than brain-science- or > AGI-focused discussions of the effects of drugs should not become too > common > on the AGI list itself. Ben, of course, is the ultimate decider of that. > > I remember the excitement I had over 3 to 4 decades ago when I experimented > with psychedelics (although at relatively low dosages), so I can sympathize > with the enthusiasms of current experimenters. And I find some of the > written accounts of such experiments that I have read on the web to be very > thoughtful, at time reminiscent, and very interesting from a brain > science/AGI point of view. But right now I am sufficiently busy with more > concrete realities that I am not in the market for such encounters. > > I do think psychedelic experiences can shed valuable light on the extent to > which all perception is hallucination, just normally it is well turned and > controlled hallucination. > > For example, the experiences some have reported, including off list in this > discussion, of the sense of 3+1 D spacetime being shattered, or being > perceived as very different, is not a surprise if one considers that your > normal perception of space and time is an extremely complex and carefully > controlled hallucination. If you substantially remove that control, it is > not surprising that, for example, a cubist-like deconstruction of special > perception might occur. After all, your mind has to stitch together its > normal visual continuousness of 3D spatial reality from stereographic > projections onto V1, which because of jerky saccades of the eye, are a > rapid, disjointed, succession of grossly fish-eyed projections. So when > psychedelics interfere with the normal process of stitching together > projections from V1 and/or V2 and from remembered matching patterns of > shapes and objects --- each having their own set of dimensions --- it is > not > surprising that a very different perception of space could arise, including > a perception of a dis-joint set of many more than than 3+1 dimensions. > > With regard to perceptions of direct communicating with a myriad of other > consciousnesses, such as elves, this is not surprising either, since the > concept of unity of consciousness is also a construct generated by mental > behavior and mental models, as is the construct of 3D space. Your brain is > capable of generating many voices, many senses of awareness at once. But > it > normally works best, for generating behavior that helps humans survive, to > have a greater, more distinct divide between what is conscious and what is > kept in the subconscious, so that greater focus on the problems and > behaviors at hand can be achieved. > > I am not, in any way trying to belittle the importance, nor "realness" of > psychedelic experiences, but I am saying that my study of brain science and > my own experiences decades ago with psychedelics make me think that one > cannot always trust one's perceptions, particularly when one is on > psychedelics. > > All perception can be considered hallucinations, that is, constructs of the > brain --- but some hallucinations are more valuable for certain tasks than > others. > > I think psychedelics, if properly used, can be of sufficient worth, in > helping humans better understand our own minds and spirits and their > relationship to reality --- that --- if our society were more rational --- > it probably should have some limited ritualized used of psychedelics, as > have many primitive societies. But it is not clear to me yet how rational > our society is capable of being, particularly if drug use is too widely > spread. Our society is changing so rapidly that much of traditional folk > wisdom is out of date, and much of what has replaced it has be generated by > commercially driven culture, that is, by its very nature exploitative. > > I think such drugs can have great danger of removing people from important > aspects of reality. As humanity starts spiraling ever faster into the > wormhole of the singularity, and as the world becomes more and more > crowded, > polluted, and competitive, and the have-nots increasingly have more power, > and as the media can provide increasingly seductive non-realities, and as > machine superintelligences increasingly decrease the relative value of > human > work and human thought, I fear that truly mind-altering drugs, if use too > widely, could increase, rather than decrease, the chance that humanity will > fare well --- as civilization, as we know it, is increasingly and more > rapidly distorted by the momentus changes that face us. > > But I am 60 years old, so maybe my viewpoint is out of date. > > Ed Porter > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > -- Robin Gane-McCalla YIM: Robin_Ganemccalla AIM: Robinganemccalla ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=120640061-aded06 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
