My theory is that there is no general class. What ever you see new is a new class for you. If you see that again then this becomes a variation of the earlier class. Basically the brain is able to detect if something it sees in new and store it along with an emotion of excitement. This is why young people are excited to see things because many things are new for them. New experiences gives a kind of emotional high. This high helps to register the new experience as a class. Now if there are things that just variations of the new class then there is not too much excitement.
The neurons initially are nascent and as it sees new objects the neurons become that memory. So when we see a car for the first time, the car neurons are created. Basic class. When we see an audi, our brain create a variation of car neuron. Each time u see a car, the car neurons in the brain get excited. Common things become boring. A star if he is seen always doesn't create that excitement anymore. This is why the stars who are over exposed lose their star value.. The emotions also play a huge role in forming memories. - This we will take up as another thread. The ability of the child to move its mouth comes from another phenomenon namely mirror neurons. - Its basically means that a visual input of a movement of the mouth creates memories that can be used to activate motor nerves to move the mouth. This is a feedback mechanism. Its similar to recording. When we record an mp3 song we can use it to play back. similarly when we hear a sound in our brain, the brain finds a way to reproduce the sound through the mouth. I know this is very confusing, I will try to explain this better in a later post. But the question is interesting. How does the baby know where its mouth is? Thanks, Deepak On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 1:35 AM, Mike Tintner <tint...@blueyonder.co.uk>wrote: > I'm not sure that's too diff. from what I'm saying. > > The interesting question is what does the brain use as its general class > model against wh. to compare new individuals? It's unlikely to be a or the > first individual face/object as you seem to be suggesting. > > Another factor here is that you interpret all these objects with your body > - you understand other faces and bodies by projecting your own body into > them - a remarkable example of that is the ability of a c. 2 month old > infant to imitate the mouth movements of parents (& remember it hasn't seen > its own mouth yet). > > *From:* deepakjnath <deepakjn...@gmail.com> > *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2010 8:38 PM > *To:* agi <agi@v2.listbox.com> > *Subject:* Re: [agi] How do we hear music > > Okay Mike, > > Let me write down my theory of this phenomenon. my intuition is that brain > learns in steps and deltas. The brain takes in a fixed amount of only new > information at a time. So when a person who doesn't have too much > impressions (image memories) of a chinese person sees a chinese, He takes in > the round face and the eyes etc which are new info to the seer. > > When the seer sees another chinese person the older chinese persons image > comes back into the working memory. The new person is stored as delta of the > other person. > > As the seer sees more and more people the basic structure is no longer new. > The new features that get captured become the subtle variations from the > basic structure. This ability to identify new information becomes a crucial > function of the brain. Thus as time passes with images of chinese people, > the seer will be able to capture subtle variation and recognize the person. > > People who are not musically trained find it difficult to distinguish > between notes. But repeated listening to the notes engrave the structure of > notes to the memory. And complex and subtle variations of the notes become > apparent to the listener as the base notes are already stored in the memory > and so no longer new. > > cheers, > Deepak > > > > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 12:54 AM, Mike Tintner > <tint...@blueyonder.co.uk>wrote: > >> Deepak, >> >> No it's basically a distraction from the problem. With time and closer >> inspection, they will all look different. >> >> Correction, it IS useful. It probably tells us something about how the >> brain and an AGI must work >> First you start with a round blob shape for a class of objects - a face >> blob, and then you refine it and refine it, add more and more detail, for >> different individuals. >> >> What makes Chinese difficult to individuate at first, is they have a >> particular characteristic wh. would be highly distinctive for a Western >> individual - relatively slanted eyes. Imagine if a new race all had square >> jaws. You can't take your eyes off that feature at first. With time you >> learn to make adjustments for it, and notice the individual characteristics >> within the narrower eyes. Ditto elephants are hard to individuate at first >> because they all have these massively distinctive features of huge ears and >> trunks. >> >> You start general, and gradually individuate - but you have to individuate >> - your life depends on being able to distinguish individual characteristics >> as well as general forms. >> >> *From:* deepakjnath <deepakjn...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2010 7:56 PM >> *To:* agi <agi@v2.listbox.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [agi] How do we hear music >> >> Mike, >> >> All chinese look the same for me. But for a chinese person they don't. Why >> is this? Is there another clue here? >> >> Thanks, >> Deepak >> >> On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Mike Tintner >> <tint...@blueyonder.co.uk>wrote: >> >>> David, >>> >>> There must be a fair amount of cog sci/AI analysis of all this - of how >>> the brain analyses and remembers tunes - and presumably leading theories >>> (as for vision). Do you or anyone know more here? >>> >>> Also, you have noted something of extreme importance, wh. is a lot more >>> than "a step further". >>> >>> OTOH you've been analysing how we recognize the same, general tune in >>> different, individual renditions. >>> >>> OTOH you've pointed out, we also recognize the INDIVIDUAL differences >>> of/variatiions on the same genre/class - we appreciate the different ways >>> Davis/Gillespie play as well as that they're playing the same tune. >>> >>> Now correct me but isn't the individual dimension of images of all kinds, >>> almost entirely missing from AI? The capacity to recognize what >>> makes individuals of a species individual, and not just that they belong to >>> the same species. Isn't visual object recognition for example almost >>> entirely focussed on recognizing general objects rather than individual >>> objects - that that's an example of a general doll, rather than an >>> individual particularly beaten up, or just slightly and disturbingly altered >>> doll? >>> >>> No doubt AI can recognize individual fingerprints, but it's the capacity >>> to recognize individuals as variations on the general - to recognize that he >>> has a particularly sarcastic smile, or she has a particularly lyrical, fluid >>> walk, or that that tune contrasts harmonious and discordant music (as per >>> rap) in a distinctive way - that's missing, no? >>> >>> >>> *From:* David Butler <dbut...@flomedia.com> >>> *Sent:* Monday, July 26, 2010 3:44 PM >>> *To:* agi <agi@v2.listbox.com> >>> *Subject:* Re: [agi] How do we hear music >>> >>> When we listen to music there are many elements that come into play that >>> create our memory of how the song goes. If you take a piece of instrumental >>> music, you have the melody, a succession of tones in a certain order, >>> duration of each note in the melody, timbre, or tonal quality, (guitar vs >>> trombone), time, how fast the song is played. Phrasing, what part of the >>> melody is emphasized using volume, change of tone quality etc... Is the >>> melody played slurred with all the notes run together or staccato played >>> with short notes. >>> >>> Too take it a step further how do we recognize a solo played by Miles >>> Davis rather than Dizzy Gillespie playing the same song both on trumpet but >>> sound completely different in style. How do we recognize when two different >>> conductors direct the same music with the same orchestra but yet make it >>> sound different? >>> >>> . >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Matt Mahoney <matmaho...@yahoo.com>wrote: >>> >>>> deepakjnath wrote: >>>> >>>> > Why do we listen to a song sung in different scale and yet identify it >>>> as the same song.? Does it have something to do with the fundamental way >>>> in >>>> which we store memory? >>>> >>>> For the same reason that gray looks green on a red background. You have >>>> more neurons that respond to differences in tones than to absolute >>>> frequencies. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Matt Mahoney, matmaho...@yahoo.com >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* deepakjnath <deepakjn...@gmail.com> >>>> *To:* agi <agi@v2.listbox.com> >>>> *Sent:* Thu, July 22, 2010 3:59:57 PM >>>> *Subject:* [agi] How do we hear music >>>> >>>> Why do we listen to a song sung in different scale and yet identify it >>>> as the same song.? Does it have something to do with the fundamental way >>>> in >>>> which we store memory? >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> Deepak >>>> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >>>> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >>>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >>>> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >>>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>>> >>> >>> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >>> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >>> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> cheers, >> Deepak >> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > > > -- > cheers, > Deepak > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- cheers, Deepak ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
