On 7/25/20 11:54 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 7/25/2020 6:33 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: >> As France has been eliminated, it is with great sadness that I cause R. >> Lee to cease to be a Contestant in the 2020 Birthday Tournament, >> pursuant to Regulation BT2. >> > > H. Judge Publius, > > I'd like to ask for a clarification here that doesn't make a difference > now, but might later. > > In classic diplomacy terms, a player is eliminated when e loses all eir > supply centers? In this case, France was eliminated by those standards > before the proposals were resolved, not after, and proposal resolution is > "only after resolving moves and unit adjustments for that turn." So by > that classic elimination definition (being part of unit adjustments) > France's votes would not have counted for this past batch of proposals and > "half the contestants" would be 3 not 3.5. I'm sure that doesn't change > this turn's proposal results, but it might in the future. > > More generally, I'm also noting that "eliminated" or a synonym aren't > defined in any of the mutable rules at all (unless I'm missing it). So > we're wholly relying on the concept of "supply center elimination = player > elimination", but it's squishy and not defined. For example, with > Turkey's new powers, it implies that "support one Fleet" might be enough > to keep em in the game, depending on how "elimination" is defined (supply > centers versus supported pieces). > > The most reliable reading is probably "elimination is only when the > Gamemaster removes a Contestant by announcement" but that leaves it wholly > undefined in terms of practical game play, you could have ruled that > France was off the board, but not eliminated from voting and still been > consistent (we could still vote to bring em back, after all!) - or you > could eliminate anyone when you felt like it, not that you would! > > So overall, just looking for some clarity on how you will consider > "elimination" (both conditions and timing)? > > Ciao, > Italy. >
I thought about this, and I obviously can't address whether it would have made a difference in this specific instance, but generally my interpretation was that if someone had not been eliminated during a turn of voting, eir votes should count, therefore I decided that I would eliminate them, which only occurs manually and is simply conceptually connected to a lack of supply centers, after all other steps. If supplyless countries get a role, I will ad R. Lee back and not remove future Contestants, but the intent was that once a Contestant could no longer submit orders, e would be removed. If a proposal changed that though, I'd have no objection. To address the specific issue of Turkey, I would not cause em to cease to be a Contestant. If any other country were given a role after loss of supply, I would also allow them to remain or cause them to return to being a Contestant. For that matter, you could create new countries. -- ---- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
