On 7/25/2020 9:15 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: > On 7/25/20 11:54 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-discussion wrote: >> On 7/25/2020 6:33 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: >>> As France has been eliminated, it is with great sadness that I cause R. >>> Lee to cease to be a Contestant in the 2020 Birthday Tournament, >>> pursuant to Regulation BT2. >>> >> >> H. Judge Publius, >> >> I'd like to ask for a clarification here that doesn't make a difference >> now, but might later. >> >> In classic diplomacy terms, a player is eliminated when e loses all eir >> supply centers? In this case, France was eliminated by those standards >> before the proposals were resolved, not after, and proposal resolution is >> "only after resolving moves and unit adjustments for that turn." So by >> that classic elimination definition (being part of unit adjustments) >> France's votes would not have counted for this past batch of proposals and >> "half the contestants" would be 3 not 3.5. I'm sure that doesn't change >> this turn's proposal results, but it might in the future. >> >> More generally, I'm also noting that "eliminated" or a synonym aren't >> defined in any of the mutable rules at all (unless I'm missing it). So >> we're wholly relying on the concept of "supply center elimination = player >> elimination", but it's squishy and not defined. For example, with >> Turkey's new powers, it implies that "support one Fleet" might be enough >> to keep em in the game, depending on how "elimination" is defined (supply >> centers versus supported pieces). >> >> The most reliable reading is probably "elimination is only when the >> Gamemaster removes a Contestant by announcement" but that leaves it wholly >> undefined in terms of practical game play, you could have ruled that >> France was off the board, but not eliminated from voting and still been >> consistent (we could still vote to bring em back, after all!) - or you >> could eliminate anyone when you felt like it, not that you would! >> >> So overall, just looking for some clarity on how you will consider >> "elimination" (both conditions and timing)? >> >> Ciao, >> Italy. >> > > I thought about this, and I obviously can't address whether it would > have made a difference in this specific instance, but generally my > interpretation was that if someone had not been eliminated during a turn > of voting, eir votes should count, therefore I decided that I would > eliminate them, which only occurs manually and is simply conceptually > connected to a lack of supply centers, after all other steps. If > supplyless countries get a role, I will ad R. Lee back and not remove > future Contestants, but the intent was that once a Contestant could no > longer submit orders, e would be removed. If a proposal changed that > though, I'd have no objection. To address the specific issue of Turkey, > I would not cause em to cease to be a Contestant. If any other country > were given a role after loss of supply, I would also allow them to > remain or cause them to return to being a Contestant. For that matter, > you could create new countries. >
Thanks! Under the current rules anyway, "no possible orders to submit (after proposals are resolved)" seems like a good, clear conditional to work with. -G.
