Good points.

I strive to spend 90% of my focus on deriving and measuring the underlying 
edge, why does it exist, when did it exist & does it still exist, how is it 
captured + measured.   Last 10% is spent on the system metrics, etc.   The big 
dog, "The Edge", seems not to be discussed very much by many people.  

Regards,
Scott

--- In [email protected], "tf28373" <tom...@...> wrote:
>
> I strongly agree. This is the moment when Ulcer Performance Index steps in - 
> check this one out, since it is based on measuring risk in the terms of 
> drawdown regarding its duration. By the way thanks for your comments about 
> Omega - it seems that on the one hand AIRAP can add something positive into 
> system performance analysis, on the other - it has some drawbacks. 
> 
> Anyway my mind is still overoccupied by the idea of deriving the system 
> virtues and equity line features from simple mean - deviation analysis 
> (together with using such indicators like profit factor, power factor, 
> expectation). Have you ever ponder on this one?
> 
> --- In [email protected], "sdwcyberdude" <scwalker1986@> wrote:
> >
> > Tomasz,
> > 
> > I also use and see value in the Max DD, however, I believe it is should 
> > only be a "secondary" measure.
> > 
> > Think of a 10 year backtest.  System X has 1 drawdown of 30% (max), and 
> > many small drawdown never exceeding 5%.   System Y has 1 drawdown of 25% 
> > (max), and 10+ other drawdowns between 20 and 23%.
> > 
> > Which system is more "stable"?  I will invest risk capital in System X, 
> > which has the higher max drawdown, but much fewer drawdowns of depth.
> > 
> > I would love to have a measure of drawdown that more directly and 
> > intuitively measures the depth and frequency of drawdowns per unit of time. 
> >   Correlation of the equity curve also gets at that point.
> > 
> > Regarding the Omega, I am relying on a friend who studied both the advanced 
> > math and models and uncover significant concerns with the Omega (I seem to 
> > recall in was bias issues around skewness and kurtosis, but I might be 
> > wrong), however it was unpublished work for hedge funds.  He also developed 
> > a proprietary alternative.  Sorry I can't be more helpful on that one.
> > 
> > Kind Regards,
> > Scott
> > 
> > --- In [email protected], "tf28373" <tomfid@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Scott
> > > 
> > > Thanks for response. I agree that the Sortino ratio is a kind of solution 
> > > to the typical Sharp ratio disadvantages (like penalization  high 
> > > moments, which for me is irrational). Nevertheless, there is no max dd 
> > > taken into account, which confuses me a bit. However, I might be too 
> > > devoted to this risk measure (max dd) - what do you think? Is mean and 
> > > its variance better/sufficient values as far as the characteristics of 
> > > equity line is considered? (This is what brain123 was supporting in many 
> > > discussions.)
> > > 
> > > "One should be careful if it is built upon the Omega, which I believe 
> > > introduces other problems."
> > > 
> > > That is an interesting point - can you elaborate a bit on this one? In 
> > > fact I was hoping to get this kind of information when starting this 
> > > thread as - frankly speaking -  I don't feel familiar with plain maths 
> > > enough to analyse it...
> > > 
> > > Looking forward to your response.
> > > Regards
> > > Tomasz
> > > 
> > > --- In [email protected], "sdwcyberdude" <scwalker1986@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Tomasz,
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for raising this question (and for the good work you do).
> > > > 
> > > > The Sortino Ratio is a well regarding improvement upon the Sharpe; I 
> > > > urge you to consider adding the Sortino to the base metric array.  Is 
> > > > there a reason you passed on it earlier?
> > > > 
> > > > The Sharpe ratio has a lot of problems and I was not familiar with the 
> > > > AIRAP.  One should be careful if it is built upon the Omega, which I 
> > > > believe introduces other problems.
> > > > 
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Scott
> > > > 
> > > > --- In [email protected], "tf28373" <tomfid@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Hello everyone
> > > > > 
> > > > > I have been working on the choose of fitness function following the
> > > > > Howard Bundy's advices in his "Quantitative Trading Systems" and come
> > > > > across M. Sharma's Alternative Investments Risk Adjusted Performance
> > > > > (AIRAP).
> > > > > 
> > > > > The equation of it is as following:
> > > > > 
> > > > > AIRAP =  [ E pi*(1+TRi)(1-c) ] 1/(1-c) - 1,
> > > > > 
> > > > > where  TRi - ith period total fund return (in my opinon it can also be
> > > > > ith trade net return), c - risk aversion parameter (author suggests to
> > > > > set its value to c=4), i=1,...,N - number of periods (as for me it can
> > > > > be number of trades),  pi - the probability of the ith period's total
> > > > > return (according to the author it can be replaced with 1/N). (For
> > > > > futher information please check this working paper:
> > > > > http://www.intelligenthedgefundinvesting.com/pubs/rb-ms01.pdf
> > > > > <http://www.intelligenthedgefundinvesting.com/pubs/rb-ms01.pdf> .)
> > > > > 
> > > > > M. Sharma argues that this measure captures all higher moments,
> > > > > penalizes for higher volatility and leverage (downside risk is 
> > > > > penalized
> > > > > more) and has all merits of Sharp ratio, though without its 
> > > > > limitations
> > > > > and disadvantages. I have carried out some simulations on the 
> > > > > artificial
> > > > > returns of different distributions and indeed it makes some 
> > > > > difference.
> > > > > Nevertheless what I am suspicious about is the fact that it was the 
> > > > > very
> > > > > first time I found this objective function even though it was created 
> > > > > by
> > > > > Sharma about 5 years ago.  As for me it can mean that AIRAP is in fact
> > > > > far from being effective or/and practical fitness measure at least for
> > > > > trader like us and nobody use it (maybe I am wrong...). Another issue
> > > > > that concerns me a bit is omission of MaxDrawDown in the equation, 
> > > > > which
> > > > > - at least for me - is a very important risk measure. According to 
> > > > > many
> > > > > experienced wise people writing on this forum (like ex Mr Bundy), an
> > > > > effective fitness function shouls take Max DD or some comparable risk
> > > > > measure into consideration in order to be really useful.
> > > > > 
> > > > > What do you think about AIRAP? Should I proceed with utilizing this
> > > > > function?
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am looking forward to your response. Thank you in advance.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Tomasz
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>


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