Comment: There has been many note able comments made about organic apple production, and this is quite common on such a controversial subject. I find this very similar to diverse and many times erroneous opinions on religion, politics, the economy, etc. Please remember that it is not unusual for opinions to readily change when people reach a level of understanding which allows them to see most of the components within a complex equation such as organic perennial fruit production. I have a friend who's favorite saying is, Caution...........beware of stepping on your own tongue." Jim Koan Michigan Commercial conventional apple grower for twenty years Commercial organic apple grower for fifteen years
-----Original Message----- From: Kurt Alstede <k...@alstedefarms.com> To: 'Apple-Crop' <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> Sent: Sat, Jul 24, 2010 2:57 pm Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! To Jim Bittner's quote I say AMEN! Yet, also like Jim we are finalizing our rganic certification on 8 acres of fruits and vegetables. Many "gullible ealthy" buy from us so we need to give them what they want. Best, urt W. Alstede eneral Manager lstede Farms, LLC 4 County Rt. 513 (Old Rt. 24) ost Office Box 278 hester, New Jersey 07930 nited States of America Tel.: 908-879-7189 ax: 908-879-7815 ww.alstedefarms.com -----Original Message----- rom: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] n Behalf Of Jim Bittner ent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 6:15 PM o: 'Apple-Crop' ubject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! Every once in a while I have to pull out something that was posted a few ears back on this list serve about organic. I think it fits. I even grow ome certified organic apples, but this really sums it up. "As currently defined, organic farming is a mystical mixture of 1930's echnology and new age religion designed to quell the fears of the gullible ealthy in their fruitless search for a risk-free life." -----Original Message----- rom: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] n Behalf Of Bill Shoemaker ent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 3:09 PM o: Apple-Crop ubject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! I agree. I wasn't really arguing with Ken. I just wonder when we will get to ive risk-free. Bill ---- Original message ---- Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:49:50 -0700 From: Robert kuljis <rjkul...@peak.org> Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! To: "Apple-Crop" <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> I think that is a good point about the kaolin,,, I know the non ag formulations for pottery have all kinds of warnings for cancer, inhalation threat, etc.. A simple particle mask would probably take care of most of it. Not that it is that much fun to wear a mask all the time while working in the trees. Of course there are lots of unknowns with chemicals as well. The problem we have is that the chemicals are extremely lucrative for giant companies who control much of the university funding, so much less research and development goes into non chemical methods. These methods could be much much cheaper. Considering that conventional ag is responsible for at least 40% of greenhouse gas emissions, mostly due to petroleum based fertilizer, conversion to an ecological organic ag system seems to be not only healthier, but a prerequisite for survival at this stage.. Some things that can help with the application of either organic or chem materials would be monitoring, understanding the disease/pest life cycle,, implementing and enhancing biological controls. These have come a long way, but the scale of the efforts is much higher on the end of the paradigm that wants growers to keep putting out chemicals whose ultimate cost is much more then the $ amount paid. Robert Kuljis Thomas Paine Farms On Jul 24, 2010, at 5:48 AM, Bill Shoemaker wrote: > I recently heard life is terminal. I think someone should do > something about that. Who's in charge here! > > Bill > > > > ---- Original message ---- >> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:31:11 -0400 >> From: Ken Hall <edsorch...@aol.com> >> Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! >> To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net >> >> Is anyone familiar with work on human exposure to >> kaolin clay in an orchard setting? A pulmonary >> disease referred to as "kaolinosis" has been >> identified in people who had high exposure to clay >> dust. What about lower levels of exposure, year >> after year, to orchard workers or pick-your-own >> apple customers? >> Not sure we can even say that kaolin is beyond >> suspicion. >> Ken Hall >> Edwards Apple Orchard, Inc. >> 7061 Centerville Road >> Poplar Grove, IL 61065 >> Ph: 815-765-2234 >> Fx: 815-765-1072 >> Cl: 815-520-5764 >> Email: edsorch...@aol.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Fleming, William <w...@montana.edu> >> To: Apple-Crop <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> >> Sent: Fri, Jul 23, 2010 4:31 pm >> Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be >> fat too! >> >> I wouldn't say organic pesticides more toxic to >> the environment but the fact that most are so broad >> spectrum that they kill beneficials as well as >> pests. That makes them unecological. as compared to >> many of the modern pesticides that are very specific >> in their targets. Plus many times when you kill the >> beneficials you cause a whole new set of problems >> that have to be addressed. You end up having to >> spray even more. >> Just the fact that organic pesticides are short >> lived also makes them unecological in increased fuel >> usage when several sprays may be needed to take the >> place of one conventional material. >> >> Bill Fleming >> Montana State University >> Western Ag Research Center >> 580 Quast Ln >> Corvallis, Montana >> >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> >> From: apple-c...@virtualorchard..net >> [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of >> Robert kuljis >> Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 10:46 AM >> To: Apple-Crop >> Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:...and causes you to be >> fat too! >> >> I agree to buy local , but how can you say that >> organic pesticides are more toxic to the >> enviornment? Lets see, kaolin clay, entrust(soil >> organism), pyrethreum(breaks down VERY fast, as >> opposed to synthetic version which last longer). >> How are these more toxic then man made chemicals >> which do not break down? they break down into >> compounds that still have no analog in nature.. >> >> On Jul 23, 2010, at 8:18 AM, <moore5...@msn.com> >> wrote: >> >> It is more important to know where your food is >> grown! We have seen salmonella from melons and >> scallions from Mexico and Asia. The USA has the Food >> & Drug Administration that tightly regulates >> pesticides and their application. Foreign foods do >> not! Some pesticides are not applied to the food at >> all but on small plastic tabs that are clipped on >> branches to act as a deterrent to the bug. Organic >> food growers use pesticides also, just more often >> because the product does not last as long. Many >> organic pesticides are more toxic to the environment >> than the standard commercial grower uses. I know >> because I am a commercial grower of apples. >> Pesticides in the run off stream water from the home >> gardener is one of the biggest offenders of >> pollution. Consumers should use common sense and >> wash everything raw before eating it. don't deprive >> children of good nutrition because of a sensational >> hit article that may be designed to garner >> contributions to their non-profit cause. We grow >> the safest food in the world. Support your local >> farmer's market and buy American! >> >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> >> To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net >> From: david_d...@mac..com >> Subject: Apple-Crop: ...and causes you to be fat >> too! >> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 09:47:28 -0400 >> >> the current lead story on Yahoo >> - http://shine..yahoo.com/event/loveyourbody/why-you-cant-lose- >> those-last-10-pounds-1964849/ >> >> "...See, an apple a day may have kept the doctor >> away 250 years ago when Benjamin Franklin included >> the phrase in his almanac. But if that apple comes >> loaded with obesity-promoting chemicals - nine of >> the ten most commonly used pesticides are obesogens, >> and apples are one of the most pesticide-laden foods >> out there - then Ben's advice is way out of >> date...." >> >> I look forward to market saturday - >> >> David Doud - >> >> grower - indiana >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> >> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and >> e-mail from your inbox. Get started. >> > William H Shoemaker, UI-Crop Sciences Sr Research Specialist, Food > Crops St Charles Horticulture Research Center > 535 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 630-584-7254; > FAX-584-4610--------------------------------------------------------- > - > ---------------- > The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard > <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon > Clements <webmas...@virtualorchard.net>. > Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not > represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no > responsibility for the content. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements <webmas...@virtualorchard.net>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. illiam H Shoemaker, UI-Crop Sciences r Research Specialist, Food Crops t Charles Horticulture Research Center 35 Randall Road St Charles, IL 60174 30-584-7254; FAX-584-4610 No virus found in this incoming message. hecked by AVG - www.avg.com ersion: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3025 - Release Date: 07/24/10 1:36:00 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the ontent. o virus found in this incoming message. hecked by AVG - www.avg.com ersion: 9.0.830 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3025 - Release Date: 07/24/10 2:36:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon lements <webmas...@virtualorchard.net>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for he content.
