>From what I've read fresh water will be the limiting population factor long >before energy.
I hate to see people dying off but perhaps a world population fewer than 2 billion or even one billion would be much better for the planet and humans alike. In fact I think we all know deep down it would be. It would be great if population reduction could take place in a voluntary lower birth rate manner but I'm not holding my breath especially when the capitalist system seems to depend on a constantly growing population. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana ________________________________ From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Randy Beaudry Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 7:35 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! Another relatively sobering book on that topic is called the Long Emergency by J.H. Knustler, which details our dependence upon fossil fuels and the state of emergency that will (may?) ensue following the eventual consumption of world oil supplies past the point of peak oil. A couple factoids from that book remain with me, including the high number of fuel calories needed to put a calorie of food (grain, fruit, vegetable, meat) in our bellies. I can only assume that if/when shortages become real, the relative proportion of available oil resources will need to be redirected toward food - and that the efficiency of farming and marketing systems on a per calorie in versus a calorie out will need to be optimized. It occurs to me that this is an area where farmers and industry will likely lead the way as they will be on the front lines of change. The book Sustainable Energy (Without all the Hot Air) by physicist David McKay helps frame the eventual decline in oil availability by explicitly describing what our long term options are for alternative energy (using the UK as a model) based on current science. That's a pretty grim book as well in some regards, but both authors depict a sea change in human activity in the near future. Randy Beaudry On Jul 27, 2010, at 8:49 AM, robert wrote: A couple of years ago, I read a book called "The Party's Over" which makes the case that we are fast approaching peak oil and that there is no alternative that will ever be as cheap and plentiful. He quoted some expert who said that organic agriculture can only support 2 billion people on earth and that the human race in the last century had experienced the equivilant of an algae bloom with our use of cheap energy from petroleum in heating, transportation and (most importantly) agriculture. It may or may not be true but it seems to me that this is what we have been talking about in the previous discussion. It is food for thought. Robert Justman ----- Original Message ----- From: "William H Shoemaker" <wshoe...@illinois..edu<mailto:wshoe...@illinois.edu>> To: "'Apple-Crop'" <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net>> Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 6:21 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: RE:..and causes you to be fat too! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard <http://www.virtualorchard.net> and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements <webmas...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:webmas...@virtualorchard.net>>. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. Randy Beaudry, Professor A22 Plant and Soil Sciences Bldg. Department of Horticulture Michigan State University East Lansing, MI 48824 (517)355-5191 x1303 beau...@msu.edu<mailto:beau...@msu.edu>
