On 8/26/2015 12:08 PM, Gary T. Giesen wrote:
Andrew,
If that's your approach, why not create policy to create one class of user,
and remove the distinction altogether?
I have contemplated such an approach and even drafted, about 2 years
ago, a post-IPV4-exhaustion policy rewrite, which collapsed the
distinction between ISPs and end-users. In discussing this idea within
the AC and other community members, they believed at that time that was
too much for the community to handle. The community in the past has
noted that omnibus style policy rewrites are generally not accepted by
the larger community.
This policy proposal is a way to start the discussion between the ISP /
end-user differences. If the wider community support the idea of fully
collapsing the two categories, we can continue that direction. If not,
that is OK, too.
ISPs pay more because they receive
more in services, and because they make money "leasing" IPs. If you make it
so that ISPs can get the same set of services as end users (and start
applying as end-users), then end-user fees will have to increase
appropriately, in order to avoid decreasing ARIN's overall revenues. A lot
of end-users will not want that, to satisfy the wants of a few very large
orgs, for a service which they may even not know exists (and have no desire
to use it)
All I'm talking about is putting in some language to guard against obvious
fraud, and keep costs down for end-users (since they presumably won't have
anywhere near the ratio of SWIPs/block). It's not going to stop an ISP
determined to go the end-user route, but will hopefully steer the
well-meaning ISPs down the correct path and could make it easier to revoke
blocks for blatent fraud.
Do you have any language that you'd like to see added to the draft such
that you could support it?
A lot of what's in the NRPM already is hard to enforce, but that doesn't
stop us from trying to create policies for fair allocations/assignments,
with reasonable controls. I think some plain language about what is and is
not an acceptable SWIP for an end-user is appropriate. What I don't want to
see if the ISP/end-user classes merging by being back-doored through a
policy with no limits.
Some of the examples of what I thought were acceptable reassignments I
put in the problem statement. Would you support those types of
reassignment records being allowed for end-users?
Andrew
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Andrew Dul
Sent: August 26, 2015 2:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records
for
IPv4 End-Users
Shouldn't operators get to decide and be responsible for what records they
put in the database? I understand that the potential for mis-use of
additional
reassignments, but there is already that potential for ISPs. Do you feel
that
we need to address mis-use with ISP reassignments too?
One could create all sorts of "schemes" to limit the ability of ISP users
to
"game" the system as end users. Fee per reassignment record, or 10
reassignments per end-user w/ additional records costing more...
Or maybe we just need to think about if the differences between ISPs and
end-users matter as much in a IPv4 depleted world.
While this policy likely has downstream fee implications, it is not
designed to
map to any particular fee structure. I haven't seen any details on any
proposed fee changes so I could not take that into account when drafting
this
policy.
Andrew
On 8/26/2015 10:18 AM, Gary T. Giesen wrote:
I am opposed to the policy as written.
There are few to no controls on who the end user can SWIP to, which I
think will either result in ISPs applying as end-users to game the
system, raise the cost for end users, or both.
I assume this is trying to align the NRPM to ARIN's new fee structure
which I believe is due in September?
Cheers,
GTG
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of ARIN
Sent: August 25, 2015 3:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8: Reassignment records
for
IPv4
End-Users
Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8
Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
On 20 August 2015 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted
"ARIN-prop-222 Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users" as a Draft
Policy.
Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8 is below and can be found at:
https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2015_8.html
You are encouraged to discuss the merits and your concerns of Draft
Policy
2015-8 on the Public Policy Mailing List.
The AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the
conformance of
this
draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet Number Resource
Policy as stated in the PDP. Specifically, these principles are:
* Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
* Technically Sound
* Supported by the Community
The ARIN Policy Development Process (PDP) can be found at:
https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html
Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at:
https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html
Regards,
Communications and Member Services
American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
## * ##
Draft Policy ARIN-2015-8
Reassignment records for IPv4 End-Users
Date: 25 August 2015
Problem statement:
End-User Organizations do not have the ability to create reassignment
records in the number resource database.
Reassignment records can be used for a number of different functions
which could benefit the overall desire to increase database accuracy
by allowing organizations to add additional details in the database.
The following reasons have been noted as positive reasons to allow
the creation of additional records.
- Geolocation (allows an organization to specify a different location
within the
database which is used by organizations creating geo-location by IP
address
databases)
- Subsidiary reassignment (allows an organization to note that a
portion
of
their netblock is in use by a different subsidiary entity)
- Assignment to contracted parties (some organizations have contracts
with other organizations which are operating networks under
agreements with the registrant, this allows the top-level
organizations to accurately
specify the
organization operating the network in the number resource database)
- More specific contact information (some organizations operate large
networks which don't necessarily have the same technical or abuse
contact
information)
Policy statement:
Create new section 4.3.x
End-user organizations which have an active registration services
agreement
shall be permitted to create reassignment records in the number
resource database. Organizations shall use the guidelines outlined in
section 4.2.3 when creating reassignment records.
Comments:
a. Timetable for implementation: immediately b. Anything else:
It is noted by the author of this policy proposal that one of the
distinctions in
the service between ISPs and End-Users has been the ability for an
organization to create reassignment records.
This policy proposal stretches across responsibilities areas as it
impacts number policy, ARIN operational practice, and fees.
Below we have noted the three areas and the different responsibilities:
A) Providing reassignment support for end-user assignments, for those
who wish to use it
This is an ARIN Service issue - could be an suggestion/consultation
process,
so long as any implied additional workload/cost can be accommodated
in budget and the community supports
B) New requirement on end-users to provide reassignment information
in certain circumstances so that ARIN will treat their usage
assertion
credibly
This is a policy issue. These requirements should be vetted through
the
policy
development process.
C) Fee Implications of ISPs moving to end-user category
This is Board issue, but first requires a community discussion or
consultation
to be held to solicit community input on desired outcome.
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Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
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