"especially if your users are point-blank telling you it matters"
I think that is what I find the most humours (in a not so funny way). Here are numerous users relaying our experience, thoughts and feelings here and are told it is fine as is. For a BMC engineer, yes maybe. Real-world people using the tool, not so much. Any one of us that builds home-grown apps or customizations (extends) ITSM has come up with a great solution in the past; something that makes complete sense to us. But then roll it out and the users don't seem to see it the same way we do. This is one of those situations. The designers/developers of a tool do not see the tool the same way as users, they just don't. Developer/designers are in too deep and have too much understanding of beneath the covers. With that level of knowledge of a tool, yes it makes sense. But your users don't and will likely never lave that level of knowledge about the tool. I like your description "litany of little terrors." Have you ever noticed IT people/developers so damn gunshy to give a response. They have been beat too many times and live in terror. Give the wrong answer and you will be beat. After a decade or two (probably much less) it really does change a person. Jason On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Andrew Hicox <and...@hicox.com> wrote: > ** > > Yes indeed! > > Holy moley, having to click delete on a core form on production server > during a maintenance window, with absolutely zero indication in the GUI > that you are not, in fact, deleting and/or fouling the form ... especially > if the GUI behaves as if that is exactly what you have just done ... right > down to pausing and going unresponsove for a very long time ... while > simultaneously knowing that your ability to continue supporting your family > may well be on the line ... and especially if you have lived through > legitimately making that mistake in the past (I have, it wasn't pleasent) > ... look ... > > It borders on psychological abuse, and I'm really not joking about that. > > Poorly designed industrial tools injure their users all the time. since > the injuries are physical, they are hard to ignore, hence there are > regulatory agencies like OSHA, etc. > > There is no such thing to protect IT workers, but I am of the opinion that > the litany of little terrors that exist in our world like this, do take a > toll after the decades we spend enduring them. > > Bottom line: be considerate to your users. Everything matters, especially > if your users are point-blank telling you it matters. > > -Andy > On Apr 27, 2015 12:57 PM, "Jason Miller" <jason.mil...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> ** >> Thanks Lisa! >> >> I understand the logic the BMC dev team is using however now that people >> have some real-world experience working overlays there are enough people >> pointing out their discomfort in the verbiage "delete" meaning delete >> overlay and delete base. As Lisa pointed out there are times where we work >> in base mode and if for whatever reason we forget we are in base (I am sure >> I am not the only person that gets distracted mid-development and have to >> remember where I left off) and delete something, then we may have just >> ruined our whole day, week or even maybe our employment situation (if we >> were in production). >> >> If the logic is that a customer should never be in base mode then why can >> we switch to base mode? Because there are valid use cases for being in base >> mode. Therefore there is a valid use case for having different verbiage. >> >> I was at BMC's office last month and talking with some of the ITSM >> developers they pointed out they have to opposite problem we have with >> overlays. Their normal day is to work in base mode. If they start to >> develop a feature, patch, enhancement and don't realize they are in best >> practice they have to go back into base and rebuild their changes in base >> (ok, ultimately I wouldn't be surprised if they have some kind of merge >> tool). If the delete verbiage was different between base and best practice >> it would be one more visual indicator of "oh crap, I am in the wrong mode." >> >> Jason >> >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Kemes, Lisa A DLA CTR INFORMATION >> OPERATIONS <lisa.kemes....@dla.mil> wrote: >> >>> Created new idea if you would like to vote for it: >>> >>> https://communities.bmc.com/ideas/10022 >>> >>> Thanks everyone! >>> >>> Lisa >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: >>> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Harsh >>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 10:46 AM >>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >>> Subject: Re: How to - Remove all Overlays from a Form >>> >>> ** >>> >>> Yes William, >>> >>> Sometime it really do paranormal activity like forms overlay from >>> backend doesn't get deleted and makes the form corrupted then really it's >>> such a pain to delete the overlay references from database to restore the >>> base form. Even backup doesn't works in that case. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Harsh >>> >>> >>> On Mon 27 Apr, 2015 8:06 pm William Rentfrow <wrentf...@stratacominc.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> That's a good nomination for a product upgrade. In BP mode the >>> delete really should be "Delete all overlays". >>> >>> You should put that in the communities - I'd upvote it. Even >>> though I know it's only going to delete the overlays I REALLY dislike >>> clicking the delete. I normally make a backup first just due to >>> paranoia/experience (pick one :) >>> >>> William Rentfrow >>> wrentf...@stratacominc.com >>> Office: 715-204-3061 or 701-232-5697x25 >>> Cell: 715-498-5056 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: >>> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kemes, Lisa A DLA CTR INFORMATION >>> OPERATIONS >>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 9:23 AM >>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >>> Subject: Re: How to - Remove all Overlays from a Form >>> >>> Then when in Best Practice, can the Delete be called Delete >>> Overlay? That seems so easy to do and assures us that we would be deleting >>> the overlay and not the form. Sometimes I'm in Base and mean to be in Best >>> Practice (doing research or something). >>> >>> Lisa >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: >>> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Hullule, Kiran >>> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 6:22 AM >>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >>> Subject: Re: How to - Remove all Overlays from a Form >>> >>> ** >>> >>> Update: I did talk to product development team in this regards, >>> developers mentioned that , whatever we do within Best Practice >>> Customization Mode is all overlay, so whatever the options you see, >>> add/delete/create etc . they are only applicable to the overlay objects.. >>> if the object/s is/are non-overlay then you won’t see delete option unless >>> you are in Base mode. This being the reason there is no need to label the >>> options explicitly for overlay as a person who is dealing with developer >>> studio know what he/she is doing and what is the significance of each mode. >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: >>> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Jason Miller >>> Sent: 23 April 2015 20:30 >>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >>> Subject: Re: How to - Remove all Overlays from a Form >>> >>> >>> >>> ** >>> >>> That would be great! >>> >>> >>> >>> I am glad to see I am not alone in thinking there should be >>> difference verbiage. I mentioned it in either the 7.6.03 (before it was >>> pulled from that version) or 7.6.04 beta; before this features was GA but >>> it went forward as is. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 6:37 AM, Kemes, Lisa A DLA CTR >>> INFORMATION OPERATIONS <lisa.kemes....@dla.mil> wrote: >>> >>> Wow thanks Kiran! That would be great! >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) >>> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Hullule, Kiran >>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2015 4:34 AM >>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >>> Subject: Re: How to - Remove all Overlays from a Form >>> >>> I am providing this feedback to our development team to >>> see if this enhancement can be incorporated in developer studio. >>> I will update you all. >>> >>> Regards >>> Kiran >>> BMC Software >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) >>> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kemes, Lisa A DLA CTR >>> INFORMATION OPERATIONS >>> Sent: 22 April 2015 22:05 >>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >>> Subject: Re: How to - Remove all Overlays from a Form >>> >>> It looks like "Delete" with no "overlay" label. >>> >>> It's really scary when I delete an overlay using this, >>> because I'm always scared that I'm going to be deleting the form. But if >>> it's overlaid, then you will only be deleting the overlay of the form. >>> >>> Lisa >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) >>> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of San Diego >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2015 11:41 AM >>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >>> Subject: Re: How to - Remove all Overlays from a Form >>> >>> ** >>> >>> Sorry, while creating overlay is in the form menu, >>> delete form overlay is NOT, else I would not have posted. Thanks, though. >>> >>> On Apr 22, 2015 10:38 AM, "Hullule, Kiran" < >>> kiran_hull...@bmc.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> create and delete view overlay option can be >>> found under Form menu -- deleting the view will only delete the overlay of >>> the view. >>> >>> hth >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Action Request System discussion >>> list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Tim Genworth >>> Sent: 22 April 2015 20:25 >>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >>> Subject: How to - Remove all Overlays from a Form >>> >>> How do I remove all view and permission overlays >>> from a form? I'm in Dev Studio and don't see a command or function for >>> doing so. I could manually remove permissions, but the view overlay >>> appears to be permanent??? >>> >>> TIA >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at >>> www.arslist.org <http://www.arslist.org> "Where the Answers Are, and >>> have been for 20 years" >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at >>> www.arslist.org <http://www.arslist.org> >>> "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 >>> years" >>> >>> >>> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 >>> years_ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at >>> www.arslist.org <http://www.arslist.org> "Where the Answers Are, and >>> have been for 20 years" >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at >>> www.arslist.org <http://www.arslist.org> "Where the Answers Are, and >>> have been for 20 years" >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at >>> www.arslist.org <http://www.arslist.org> >>> "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years" >>> >>> >>> >>> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ >>> >>> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org >>> "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years" >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2014.0.4800 / Virus Database: 4311/9524 - Release Date: >>> 04/12/15 >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org >>> "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years" >>> >>> >>> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org >>> "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years" >>> >> >> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ >> > _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ > _______________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org "Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"
