i have to say that i am in agreement with you on all the points you
state here.
i dont think that we 'faked' the wmds, but i also feel that we
didnt let the 'experts' do their job before we jumped the gun. we saw
what we wanted to see in the reports (kinda like an image of the
virgin mary in a grilled cheese sandwich). like i said before, i feel
that we were itching for an excuse. while oil and meaty haliburton
contracts are nice 'benefits', i think that your point of view is
much closer to the heart of it. driving a wedge and setting up a
large military presence in eurasia was the ultimate goal.
i have been saying for a long time, that this is war is more an
attempt to test the waters for implementation of the plan laid out
in "The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic
Imperatives" by Zbigniew Brzezinski. this book states that the key to
global domination lies in eurasia. iraq makes sense as a place to
test the wtares because anyone who is of voting age knows who saddam
is.
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think a large part of the reason for Iraq, was to the planners
> view, to get a large wedge in that location. Whether it blows up in
> their face, which it looks like it is doing, remains to be seen. As
> for WMDs, while there was not unilateral agreement as to the extent
> I think there is universal dismay that the kook didn't have any and
> made believe he did. While our reasons for going in in the first
> place may not be good, and it may have been the wrong decision, I
> don't think we faked the WMDs. That is even more troubling however,
> that so many got so much wrong. Perhaps I am naive, which is always
> a possibility.
>
> --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "Tony Tedesco"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > dan,
> > i am not looking to drag you into debate, i am just curious by
> what
> > you mean by:
> >
> > "I thought from the beginning that Iraq was more about strategic
> > position rather than WMDs. Say what you want, no one, not the UN,
> not
> > France, not Russia, no one, disagreed about their existence; only
> the
> > methodology of what to do."
> >
> > are you talking about WMD? if so, the UN, while taking the
> > intelligence provided them seriously, had failed to come up with
> > anything. Blix was asking for more time to be conclusive. I'm
sure
> > you know all this, my point is that the other countries wanted to
> go
> > through the standard protocol to determine the risk. we payed
> cowboy
> > and jumped the gun, and thats why we ended up with our
> > meager 'coalition of the willing'. the fact, as we now know it to
> > be,is that there were no wmd's. i tend to believe o'neil's (and
> > others) claim that the bush admin was looking to go into iraq for
> ANY
> > reason.
> >
> > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "dfsavgny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I really didn't want to get into this, but the last reply just
> got
> > > me. I will not debate the war. No one likes it and I was
> > aprehensive
> > > about even a valid pre-emptive strike despite my post 9/11
> fears.
> > > However, Skip, whatever our faults here in the US, I find
> nothing
> > > sad. I also refute your contention about US manifest destiny; I
> do
> > > not believe that it true for the past century. Every war or
> proxy
> > > battle we have fought in this century, whether right or wrong,
> was
> > > for philosophical and not geopolitcal reasons. Our hearts were
> in
> > > the right place but our heads may have been up our ass. No one
> > likes
> > > war, least of all the people it falls to fight it, including
the
> > > generals. Some would have (and tried to) had us not fight WWII.
> > Over
> > > the years we have tried to listen to our fore fathers'
> > warnings "not
> > > to meddle in European affairs." I thought from the beginning
> that
> > > Iraq was more about strategic position rather than WMDs. Say
> what
> > > you want, no one, not the UN, not France, not Russia, no one,
> > > disagreed about their existence; only the methodology of what
to
> > do.
> > > Will Iraq work? I don't know, but if it does we will all look
> back
> > > differently. Should Iran be next? Thank God I am not in charge.
> I
> > > never served in the military. I do not look for conflicts
> lightly
> > > recognizing that someone will have to shed their blood.
> Hopefully,
> > > if called, I would be man enough to serve or refuse to serve
and
> > > suffer the consequences if that's where my conscience led me.
We
> > all
> > > wish that it was an indentifiable country that attacked us.
That
> > > would be easy. Two small nuclear devices have kept us kamikazee
> > free
> > > for 64 years. While it is healthy to question your government
> > > (please don't question Jefferson, he was a two-face bigot who
> would
> > > have this country in eternal civil war), don't look past the
> good
> > > this country and its people have done. It was the European
> powers
> > > carving up of the Middle East and Africa that gives rise to
many
> of
> > > the problems still in existence today, most notably, at least
in
> > > Africa, the French (ugh!). Even today, the US gives more
> > > humanitarian aid to Africa than all other countries combined.
> Can
> > we
> > > do more, certainly. Sorry, but I find little sad about this
> > country,
> > > problems yes, but nothing sad. I may be a fool, but we are that
> > > light on the hill. I am not popular in Europe, but Europe died
> long
> > > ago.
> > >
> > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "SkipDragon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There is a sad element to America's mythology of self; its
> > > > wholehearted unquestioning acceptance of a doctrine of
> manifest
> > > > destiny, which views the world as ripe for the taking. Sadly
> it
> > > is
> > > > this view that our `C' student president seems to embrace as
> > > > justification for preemptive war. As the last great power it
> is
> > > > George's view that real men must do what men must do, no room
> for
> > > > nuance, subtlety or alliance; rather this is the time to
> fulfill
> > > > America's promise.
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunate news for our over achieving `C' student, is that
> > > > this style of governing only worked when time, space and
> economic
> > > > self-sufficiency provide us relative advantage. For despite
> > great
> > > > reviews and jingoist self-congratulations and despite a
> surfeit
> > of
> > > > natural resources, this nation has never been all that clever
> or
> > > > resourceful. Our outdated business model reinforced by myth
of
> > > > `can do', every man an island, survival of the strongest and
> > > > damn the
> > > > torpedoes can't match European and Asian models of
cooperative
> > > > tasking to achieve a greater societal good.
> > > >
> > > > Sadly we've become legends as dinosaurs in our own time. For
> > > > those of you still enamored of the might of the last `super
> > > > power',
> > > > consider this, no nation no matter how powerful can turn its
> back
> > > on
> > > > the rest of the world, when that world possesses 95% of
> mankind.
> > > >
> > > > It is a numbers game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "jerseyjohn99"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Skip,
> > > > >
> > > > > you make it seem coincidental that these guys all happened
> to
> > > board
> > > > > a plane at the same time intending harm against "The Great
> > > Satan".
> > > > > Is it also coincidental that there have been NO homicide
> > > bombings
> > > > in
> > > > > Israel since the funding for them dried up when a peaceful
> old
> > > man
> > > > > was found hiding in a rathole on the outskirts of Tikrit?
> > > > >
> > > > > Shall we restore Iraq to its rightful dictator & allow the
> > > people
> > > > of
> > > > > Israel to suffer again?
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, "SkipDragon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nineteen really stupid and naïve guys from 4 different
> > counties
> > > > > > decide to collect their expected reward of a harem of
> virgins
> > > and
> > > > > > throw their lives away by killing 3000 innocents.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That act of lunacy forces the `peaceful' United States to
> > > > > > invade, conquer and determine the destiny of a 5th nation
> not
> > > > > party
> > > > > > to this horrible event. What did I miss?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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