Hi Mayur:
At 9:30 PM -0800 11/7/05, mayur bora wrote:
>Wishing away something is very easy. Translating a
>meaningful dream into reality is quite tough. It is no
>wonder that many people prefer the former to drive
>home their viewpoints. But fortunately, there are some
>roadblocks which are difficult to demolish. People's
>proclivity to attribute anything undesirable to
>outside forces is like GoI putting the blame on ISI
>everytime something untoward happens in India. People
>are trying to denounce GoI consciosly. But
>unconsciously they can't help imitating them. Whether
>it can be called an 'unintended' flattery as per
>CM-da's analogy earlier ? Or should I go one step
>forward and say that imitation is a confession of
>limitation. Don't keep it up Mukul da.
>
>Mayur
**** Huh? That was a mouthful of wisdom I am sure. But what does it mean?
What is YOUR proposal for eradicating what you
believe to be Assam's no. 1 'weakness'?
Or are you too attempting to get ahead in the
world by merely saying no to others who propose
something?
Anyway. let me ask you another question here:
Are you familiar with the concept of "meles" ( mlecch)?
If so, do you know where that came from? And can you see its influence
on the subject?
Also, do YOU, personally that is, believe in that concept? And do you
ever invoke that in YOUR prayers, consciously or unconsciously ( I
presume you are a praying man from your responses regarding
Xonkor Joyonti)?
The questions might seem off the wall, but they
are pertinent to a point I am attempting to make
in regard to the "No 1 Weakness" of Kharkhowa
people as you see it. I am of course hoping that
you have what it takes to delve into the matter.
But I will understand if you avoid this too, like
the plague or otherwise.
cm :-)
>
>
>
>--- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
><<<can a provide any
>realistic and workable solution to dispel the
>legitimate feeling of mistrust among many of the
>tribal people towards caste Hindu Assamese.>>>
><<<Legitimate feeling of mistrust>>>>
>Wrong assumption again. Dying of self pity? Go to the
>offensive and show that the enemy is from outside.
>Who is Caste Hindu. I am not. You are not. Who is ?
>Disown him .
>Without a Sovereign Assam you cannot even start
>creating a proud,hardworking,focussed modern nation.
>Come up with abetter model.Come out . Sensitive
>thinkers do not need repeated requests.
>mm
>
>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: mayur bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, mc mahant
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>CC: assam@assamnet.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
>Mainland India
>Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 13:11:15 -0600
>
>
>blockquote, dl, ul, ol,
>li{padding-top:0;padding-bottom:0;}At 9:17 AM -0800
>11/7/05, mayur bora wrote:
>I can't agree more with Rajen da's comment on the
>attitude of caste Hindu Assamese people towards
>thetribes of Assam.
>
>*** I join you there Mayur. But what does that have
>to do with Assam's sovereignty aspirations?
>
>
>BTW, caste Hindus' mistreatment of their fellow men
>was not limited to the indigenous people of Assam
>alone, but fell on their own brethren who did not
>quite cut it as their equals.
>
>
>Now take a wild guess on where these ideas came from,
>where they are still nurtured and is a major force in
>politics and governance? Did you hear about the Muslim
>village pillaged and several Muslims incinerated by
>mobs in UP, on the RUMOR that they slaughtered cows
>for celebrating ID, and turns out there was no truth
>to the rumors?
>
>
>And if I am not mistaken, you submit yourself to that
>very culture in an abject display of servitude, don't
>you?
>
>
>
>
>
>When I listed out the weaknesses of
>Assamese people sometime back on assamnet, this was
>the first weakness cited by me.
>
>*** This is not a 'weakness' of ALL the people of
>Assam. It is of only a certain segment. Also, such
>ill-treatment and discrimination is possible only by
>those who wield POWER, be it political,be it economic,
>be it religious.
>
>
>
>
> I would be very happy
>if Mahanta da-s (both CM and MM)can a provide any
>realistic and workable solution to dispel the
>legitimate feeling of mistrust among many of the
>tribal people towards caste Hindu Assamese.
>
>
>*** Why me or my brother? Why not YOU? Why not Rajen?
> But I have explained. If you don't agree, tell us
>why. If you could not understand, ask. I will be
>pleased to try and explain again. But to go about
>repeating your Mantra, without any explanation could
>paint an unflattering picture of your deliberative
>skills.
>
>
>*** Are you attempting to suggest here that because of
>this CULTURAL mistrust between the indigenous people
>and the caste Hindus, Assam has forfeited its
>sovereignty aspirations? Is that your best argument
>a trump card on your stand against Assam's
>sovereignty?
>
>
>
>
>If it is, you need to work on it much harder Mayur
>:-). Because the political fracture is not caused by
>cultural chauvinism of the Assamese, but purely
>because of (not) sharing of the spoils, even though
>the seeds of mistrust might have been planted in the
>past. In that it is the REIGNING political culture
>that is the real culprit, and it transcends
>caste/subcaste/religious boundaries with all having
>their fingers in the pot.
>
>
>Furthermore, this culturally based Assamese chauvinism
>is on its way out anyway from what I hear. Is it not
>true? But under the operative system there isn't a
>snowball's chance in hell that it will be eradicated
>or even ameliorated.
>
>
>
>>
>When
>people don't have any specific solution at sight, they
>try to conjure up unattainable dreams and try hard to
>sell them on the ephemeral strength of jugglery of
>words or by promising some kind of panacea which
>is>unrealistic and basically flawed.
>
>
>*** That surely is the judgement of a superior
>intellect, rendering his verdict.
>But can you explain:
>
>
> *** Why sovereignty aspirations are flawed?
>
>
> *** What are unattainable dreams, and should
>attainability be the
> first consideration or the only consideration
>of a dream?
>
>
> *** Who is attempting to peddle 'words' here,
>without any substance
> behind it? You or me? Not that I like to rub
>it in, but could you
> answer the questions I raised about YOUR words
>in my last post? By
> avoiding a response did you or did you not
>prove that your words were
> the 'fwpwla', hollow ones, not mine :-)?
>
>
>
>
>>Sovereighnty is not the panacea as they try hard to
>make us believe. Sooner we >understand this is better.
>
>
>
>
>*** First of all, no one is seeking a panacea, except
>perhaps those who believe that their servitude is the
>panacea that will deliver them into a bright new world
>with handouts from their Mai-Baap at Hastinapur :-).
>But be that as it may, why don't YOU tell us WHY and
>WHAT sovereignty will NOT deliver for Assam?
>
>
>When you do, you could claim a right to your
>conclusions and your august verdicts. Failing which it
>would be another round of 'potaan dhan', that might
>fool or delight those blind ducks, but few others.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>cm :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>When
>people don't have any specific solution at sight, they
>try to conjure up unattainable dreams and try hard to
>sell them on the ephemeral strength of jugglery of
>words or by promising some kind of panacea which
>isunrealistic and basically flawed. Sovereighnty is
>not
>the panacea as they try hard to make us believe.Sooner
>we understand this is better.
>
>Mayur
>
>--- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
><<<<I would say these reflect the same caste Hindu
>Assamese insensitive attitude towards the other sub
>ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they
>want." Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for
>which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and
>Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings,
>Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. I can cite many
>examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu
>Assamese leaders from last 100 years Assam political
>history.>>>>
>
>Wrong at every thought.
>
>We will create Family Republics but they will have to
>print their own currency.
>
>mm
>
>mm
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>From: "Barua25" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "mc mahant"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>CC: <assam@assamnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
>Mainland India
>Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:16:16 -0600
>
>
>>Patently erroneeous assumptionS.
>
>>Even Delhi stopped this scary lines .
>
>>100% will agree to Sovereignty.
>*** Here are too many assumptions for the question
>which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me
>to explain:
>
>
>
>I would say these reflect the same caste Hindu
>Assamese insensitive attitude towards the other sub
>ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they
>want." Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude for
>which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and
>Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings,
>Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. I can cite many
>examples of such insensitive remarks from caste Hindu
>Assamese leaders from last 100 years Assam political
>history.
>
>O Assamee! when will you learn and grow?
>
>RB
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: mc mahant
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Cc: assam@assamnet.org
>Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56 AM
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
>Mainland India
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
><<<Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos
>of
>Kokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati say
>no. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will the
>sovereign government of Assam hand over their lands to
>those guys>>>>
>
>Patently erroneeous assumptionS.
>
>Even Delhi stopped this scary lines .
>
>100%will agree to Sovereignty.
>
>Nothing succeeds like success.
>
>mm
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, mayur bora
><,Bartta">[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,Bartta Bistar
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, assam@assamnet.org
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
>Mainland IndiaDate: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:45:20 -0600
>
>BLOCKQUOTE{padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}DL{padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}UL{padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}OL{padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}LI{padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;}Rajib:
>
>
>At 8:04 AM -0800 11/4/05, Rajib Das wrote:
>But C-Da, it is indeed an argument - following exactly
>the lines you worked along :-)
>
>*** First, for a product of the 21st century
>desi-knowledge brigade, you disappoint me every time
>you parrot my line of arguments and even words and
>phrases, particularly when you so vehemently disagree
>with them. You ought to have learnt by now that it is
>very unproductive to fight the 'enemy' on its terms
>:-). It is a sure-fire recipe for no getting anywhere,
>if not for losing. A friendly suggestion, not merely
>for these debates, but for life in general, is that it
>is very important for one to seek out creative
>answers, seek new paths to solving problems.
>Yourgeneration, with the backgrounds like some you
>have
>had, ought to be able to deliver far more than echoing
>those that you obviously do not agree with. It is like
>the Hinduttwa brigades' tack of trying to be bad
>clones of Jehadistas or Talibans, without their zeal.
>A patently lost cause!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Let us say Assam becomes sovereign. And the Bodos of
>Kokrajhar say no. The Bengali ghettos in Guwahati say
>no. The Tiwas say no. The Cacharis say no. Will the
>sovereign government of Assam hand over their lands to
>those guys?
>
>
>*** Here are too many assumptions for the question
>which forms your answer, to hold any water. Allow me
>to explain:
>
>
>First, you have assumed that the smaller indigenous
>groups of Assam, including the Bengali speaking ones
>who have lived in geographical Assam for generations
>will or most likely refuse to be a part of a sovereign
>Assam. But that assumption could be legitimate ONLY if
>you have explored WHY this situation has developed in
>recent decades--of each indigenous group seeking to
>carve out its own sovereign state, and concluded
>credibly that it could NOT resolved except, may only
>be kept under check by brutal Indian military might
>like Saddam Hussein or the erstwhile USSR or the
>PRofChina.
>
>
>But that is a false assumption. For someone like
>yourself with an IIM-MBA, I would have expected an
>analysis of the reasons why this condition has
>developed
>in the NE, and exploration of solutions there for.
>
>
>Not that the subject was never broached in this forum.
>I have gotten hoarse explaining some of the reasons.
>But those of you who do not accept them, and are
>endowed with analytical skills and outlooks, should be
>able to articulate your OWN assessments and lay out
>the reasons for it as you see them.
>
>
>Once you have done that, you could look into how to
>resolve the problem. I know
>the answers conceptually and am convinced that a
>sovereign Assam, and even a truly autonomous Assam
>with REAL powers to re-orient its governance can
>resolve these issues quite easily, because there is a
>historical precedent for it. These people lived side
>by side, in relative peace, interdependently, in for
>centuries.
>
>
>The above two combined, therefore, makes the analogy
>of Assam's disaffections as a part of India very
>different from the disaffections of the many
>indigenous people of the NE , which is a PRODUCT of
>the reigning Indian system of unaccountable,
>dysfunctional governance steeped in the politics of
>(not) sharing the spoils.
>
>
>
>
>I understand your and other ethnic Bengalis' fears and
>mistrusts of the Oxomiya
>chauvinists. But that has changed dramatically over
>the decades, even if not dead. But it will be the
>easiest thing to overcome, when the intelligentsia of
>the communities could join forces, backed by a
>functioning and trustworthy system of law-enforcement
>and justice of a reformed Assam government,
>considering the fact that the Assamese are the closest
>to the Bengalis in every describable ethnic/cultural
>traits among all the people of the South Asian
>sub-continent (with the exception of our indigenous
>Bodos, Karbis, Misings, Tiwas etc. who are
>historically more closely related kin.)
>So, put your thinking cap on and go at it. Don't try
>to throw my arguments at me, when you don't agree.
>That does not go anywhere :-).
>
>
>c-da
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> And especially in our parts of the
>country, if indeed you do handover Kokrajhar to
>Bodoland, what about the Assamese there who want to be
>a part of sovereign India? Or sovereign Assam for that
>matter?
>
>As to why Assam should be a part of sovereign India, I
>will address it in a separate e-mail!
>
>
>
>> > *** That is no argument. Assam is Assam and it's
>> > wishes are not subject to
>> > somebody else's choices, wishes or demands.
>> >
>> >
>> > But let me ask you, one of the most avid
>> > advocates of India, WHY it is good for India to
>> > hold onto Assam, or how it is good for Assam to
>> > continue to submit to Indian rule?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > At 8:01 AM -0800 11/3/05, Rajib Das wrote:
>> > >There was never one India ruler that had ALL of
>> > India
>> > >under his belt. The Cholas were never ruled from>
>> >Pataliputra as well. And Assam as it is known
>> today
>> > >was not ruled for ever from Pragjyotishpur.
>> > >
>> > >The basis of modern Indian nationhood from most
>> > claims
>> > >is the common cultural links across all the
>> regions
>> > of
>> > >the country. Actually that is how most modern
>> > nations
>> > >(including those of Europe) came about.
>> > >
>> > >Going by this logic of who ruled whom, the Nagas
>> > >should not have a country (or for that matter a
>> > state
>> > >even) - their territories were, for the most
>> part,
>> > >variously ruled by the Meitis and the Burmese.
>> And
>> > I
>> > >am sure more than half the tribes of the north
>> east
>> > >did not have a king in their name.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> >In an antithesis to the rebels claim that
>> > Assam
>> > >> >had never shared a common culture and history
>> > >> >with India before the Yandaboo >Treaty,
>> Mamoni
>> > >> >pointed out that the Ramayana had always
> > > >> >influenced Assamese culture and society. An
>> > >> >acclaimed authority on the >epic, she said
>> > >> >Madhav Kandali, a 14th century Assamese poet,
>> > >> >was the first to re-tell the Ramayana in a
>> > >> >modern Indo-Aryan >language.
>> > >>
>> > >> >Yet, though she underscored Assams
>> inseparable
>> > >> >cultural link with mainland India, she
>> skirted
>> > a
>> > >> >question on Ulfas demand for a >sovereign
>> > Assam
>> > >> >for obvious reasons. "Please dont mix the
>> > two,"
>> > >> >she said.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> *** There is a very simple explanation here
>> that
>> > >> many people tend to miss:
>> > >>
>> > >> In spite of all the cultural and religious
> > links
>> > >> with India, Assam never was a
>> > >> subject of Indian rulers.
>> > >>
>> > >> That is how it ought to be. Keep the cultural
>> > >> links, the religious links and the trade
>> links.
>> > >> They cannot be wiped out by an artificial line
>> > on
>> > >> the ground. It is not like all of a sudden
>> Assam
>> > >> will become a vassal state of China, or
>> Myanmar,
>> > >> or B-Desh. But why force Indian rule on Assam?
>> > >> Let both flourish, side by side, in friendship
>> > >> and mutual co-operation, like the two did over
>> > >> millenia, for the greater good of all.
>> > >>
>> > >> cm
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> At 7:42 AM +0000 11/3/05, Bartta Bistar wrote:
>> > >> >Guwahati, Thursday, November 3, 2005
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >Epics linked Assam with India culturally
>> > >> >
>> > >> >http://www.assamtribune.com/ 3 November 2005
>> > >> >By A Staff Reporter
>> > >> > GUWAHATI, Nov 2 The Ramayana and the
>> > >> >Mahabharata the two Indian epics have
>> > linked
>> > >> >Assam with the rest of India culturally in an
>> > >> >inseparable manner. Assam has a vibrant
>> > cultural
>> > >> >tradition that speaks of its cultural link
>> with
>> > >> >the mainland. Its cultural relation with the
>> > >> >mainland is very strong and old. There were
>> > some> > >> >smaller paths across the
>Himalayas,which
>> > served
>> > >> >as the channels for surface communication
>> among
>> > >> >the scholars of the State and from other
>> parts
>> > >> >of India so far as maintaining mutual
>> relations
>> > >> >was concerned.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >These were the observations made by noted
>> > >> >litterateur Dr Mamoni Raisom (Indira)
>> Goswami,
>> > >> >who has now been acting as a mediator between
>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
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