Himen,
Have you paused to think why nobody is replying to your fantasies?
Could it be that they all think you offer nothing but garbage?
Cool off!
Maybe join Baba Ramdeo's Ashram at somewhere.
Really!
mm
From: "Himendra Thakur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: "Dr. Khanindra Pathak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,assam@assamnet.org, MANOJ KUMAR DAS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,J Kalita <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Assam] Civilian Invasion by Bangladesh
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:13:28 -0500
Dear Chandan,
Since you have made comments about me that *** Actually you are something else! I have now my rights to ask you what you are. Please answer the following two questions:
1. Are you claiming Independence of Assam from India by living in the USA under the protection of your US Citizenship?
2. By living in the USA under the protection of your US Citizenship, are you helping Bangladesh in their Civilian Invasion of India where the immediate victim is Assam?
Please reply to these questions with the courage of your convictions.
I'll deal with your other points such "'khai-paat-folaa' ( ingrate) attitude towards the USA," etc., after I hear your straight answer to the above two questions.
Best,
Himendra
----- Original Message -----From: Chan MahantaCc: J Kalita ; MANOJ KUMAR DASSent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:51 AMSubject: Re: Hindus and Muslims are brothersDear Himen-da,At 10:12 PM -0500 1/29/06, Himendra Thakur wrote:Dear Chandan,I am NOT a Muslim baiter --- I am opposed to INVADERS.*** Actually you are something else!It is unreal that you should go on with these patently absurd arguments and explanations.Tell you what Himen-da, if I were in your shoes, I would defend my bigoted views with the courage of my convictions instead of manufacturing such laughable excuses.>By making an announcement that there is not a single Bangladeshi infiltrator in Assam,---"*** Not Saurav, not I nor anyone else in this forum have made such an assertion. Now you are resorting flagrant fabrications too.Besides it is a different issue that has NOTHING to do with your introductory assertions attempting to deny the citizenship of Muslims of India by branding them invaders six hundred plus years after the fact. That was where your bigotry and fascist attitudes showed in living colors.>Saurav is justifying the infiltration of Bangladeshis on economics.*** That is another sleazy assertion. Saurav NEVER JUSTIFIED such a thing. He was merely attempting to explain the phenomenon to rebut your convoluted assertion that it is a grand Islamic conspiracy to breed the hordes of B'deshis so they can take over Assam.>Every invasion has an economic aspect. Attack by Sultan Mamud prior to 1193 were all economic ... he wanted gold >rom the Jain, Hindu and Buddhist temples in India. When the British came, they came for economic reason ... they even >called it a profit-making East India Company.*** And what does that have to do with today's Muslims of India? O, by extension and implication, Assam's Muslim population? B'deshis have been sneaking into Assam for ECONOMIC survival, because there is land to be found. And what has your GoI, with its resources and constitutional duty of border protection done all these thirty years about it since the problem exacerbated? And when I asked you that question why could you NOT explain it?Oh I know you would blame it on the Nehru Dynasty as if it had nothing to do with being the Government of India. But that is the Hinduttwa folks' hang-up, alibi and that does not help Assam, does it? Anyway what did the NDA do anything other than fan the flames of sectarian conflict with their fascist ideology spreading the poison of communalism of historical Hindu Muslim amity in Assam?>Assam-net is getting ruined by your inuendos, suspicion, implication, blame, accusation, insinuation ... and >everybody seems to be in the defensive.*** I find that very amusing Himen-da.Those who find themselves on the DEFENSIVE -- I know a few do -- do so only because they get exposed in their attempts to peddle something in the guise of something else. My pointing that out causes them discomfiture and embarrassment. Now if they believe their intent is honorable, they need not be on the defensive do they? They could DEFEND their integrity by explaining in simple English, couldn't they?But once again, here is a little suggestion for those who are intimidated: Perhaps they would canvass for a DEMOCRATIC referendum to expel the intimidator. Being the devotees of democracy , they ought not to be afraid to take it up. And if they are in the majority they could then demand of the Webmaster/s to either expel or muzzle yours truly by some other means, to preserve the equanimity of Assam Net.How is that?I give you 'bhukto-bhwgis' (victims) ALL the weapons you need for de-fanging me, even show you my vulnerable underbelly -- but you never use them. Why Himen-da? Why do you guys instead WHINE and MOAN like spoilt, mama's-boy brats :-)?>You accused me of being a US-Citizen-----.*** No I don't ACCUSE you of being an US citizen. That is NOT a crime in my book. And from what you charge me with, one can easily infer that you do. And since you do imply it to be a crime for those of us who have taken up U S citizenship after coming here, not shackled and chained, in slave ships, but with free-will,with sound mind and in sound health, how do you justify your own 'khai-paat-folaa' ( ingrate) attitude towards the USA,Himen-da?>... and even after being caught red-handed ..*** I don't know whether to laugh or cry! Sheesh! I thought of you as a whole lot sharper than you portray yourself to be in these posts Himen-da.But again, I will give you a benefit of the doubt that you have 'khai-paat-folaa' ( ingrate) going berserk at being confronted with your own not-so-honorable outlooks and political pre-dilections.And just so you know, I don't take ANY of it personally. Trust me on that :-).Best,ChandanThe invading army that attacked Assam in Saraighat included a large percentage of Hindus. They came from Indo-gangetic plains which was an occupied territory at that time. Assam was the only India left outside the occupation by Invaders. Assam fought back, the Battle of Saraighat was NOT AGAINST INDIA, it was against the Invaders.By identifying the Invaders as Muslims, you and Saurav have done a great injustice to Indian Muslims. To protect a family during the early period of invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains, if a family of had five brothers, two would take conversion to Islam to protect the remaining three. Without the protection of Indian Muslims, India would have become completely Islamized like Persia. I have recorded this many times that, in India, Hindus and Muslims are brothers lost in the hurricane of History. Once that hurricane is over, the two brotrhers will shake off their differences and unite.By making an announcement that there is not a single Bangladeshi infiltrator in Assam, Bangladesh Government has actually instituted a CIVILIAN INVASIION of India where Assam the major victim. I wrote against it, and you are turning it into Muslim baiting. Apparently you are a supporter of the Banglasehi Civilian Invasion.Saurav is justifying the infiltration of Bangladeshis on economics. Every invasion has an economic aspect. Attack by Sultan Mamud prior to 1193 were all economic ... he wanted gold from the Jain, Hindu and Buddhist temples in India. When the British came, they came for economic reason ... they even called it a profit-making East India Company.Just because they had an economic reason, we do not have to give up our land.Assam-net is getting ruined by your inuendos, suspicion, implication, blame, accusation, insinuation ... and everybody seems to be in the defensive. You accused me of being a US-Citizen ... and even after being caught red-handed ... you continue the attack that I am camouflaging some Hindutwa [I am once again in the defensive to tell you that many years ago I gave up my caste and my religion. I still respect Rik Veda (some people use a foreign word "Hindu" to mean vedic wisdom) because there is NO GOD in Rik Veda.]I leave it to the assam-net readers to judge your inuendos, suspicion, implication, blame, accusation, insinuation.With the best wishes,Himendra
----- Original Message -----From: Chan MahantaTo: Himendra Thakur ; assam@assamnet.orgCc: MANOJ KUMAR DAS ; J KalitaSent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 5:55 PMSubject: Re: Chandan's citizenshipDear Himen da:>IF you based most of your anger/outburst/antagonism/suspicion/insinuations/accusations etc. against me on the >ground that :*** Well, actually NONE of it was based on YOUR citizenship. Because it was not about you. But I did assume, erroneously, that you are the beneficiary of American citizenship, to drive home the point of the hypocrisy of your stance on the Muslims of India.But none of my criticism of YOUR VIEWS ( not your persona) change in any way, shape or form, from your revelation of your citizenship status. The only part that does not apply is the hypocrisy as relates to your OWN citizenship. But it could in other ways, if you know what I mean?> I did not (repeat DID NOT) take US Citizenship ... because I still love Asomi >Ai and Mother India ...*** But how does that justify your Muslim baiting and your not too well camouflaged Hinduttwa agenda for Assam?>I hope this will remove your suspicion that I am doing all these from >the "benefits and protections of a secular society with a rule of law" and >everything I am doing is "unbecoming, hypocritical"*** My assessment is NOT a mere suspicion Himen-da. You havedemonstrated very clearly what your agenda is. And unless you can give us a whole different explanation, credibly, the impression stays. But I will give you the benefit of a doubt, and will look forward to your explanations on how you are not indulging in Muslim baiting, not attempting to deny them their right to citizenship, and not attempting to peddle Hinduttwa as a tool for preserving Assam as an Indian colony :-).
>PLEASE tell the readers what is your own citizenship today.*** Your got me finally, didn't you?But NOT SO FAST , Himen-da. Most everyone in this forum knows of my citizenship, which has been American for nearly 25 years now.Question is,now what? Would my sins absolve you of yours :-)?Best,chandanAt 4:03 PM -0500 1/29/06, Himendra Thakur wrote:
Dear Chandan,
IF you based most of your anger/outburst/antagonism/suspicion/insinuations/accusations etc. against me on the ground that :
"And coming from someone like yourself, who probably claimed US citizenship with a mere five or so years in the country, enjoying the benefits and protections of a secular society with a rule of law,it is that much more unbecoming, hypocritical"I must inform you that, although I am in the USA for the last 33 years, I did not (repeat DID NOT) take US Citizenship ... because I still love Asomi Ai and Mother India ...
I hope this will remove your suspicion that I am doing all these from the "benefits and protections of a secular society with a rule of law" and everything I am doing is "unbecoming, hypocritical"
PLEASE tell the readers what is your own citizenship today.
With the best wishes,Himendra
----- Original Message -----
From: Chan MahantaTo: Himendra Thakur ; mc mahantCc: J Kalita ; MANOJ KUMAR DAS ; assam@assamnet.orgSent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:51 PMSubject: Re: [Assam] RATNAKANA BARKAKOTI SAKOHello Himen-da:I know it was not meant for me, even though I do feature in it and I don't mean to speak for my brother either. But I thought a response is called for.>I have come to know that people of Nagaon has recently named a bridge over the Kolong River after their beloved >poet and named it RATNAKANA BARKAKOTI SAKO*** No harm done. Names are not as problematic as building a pedestrian bridge to Umananda, but for what?Did Santiago Caltrava's bridge over the Sacramento river at Redding, California (http://www.viamagazine.com/top_stories/articles/Redding04.asp ) inspire you to propose the Atan B Xako ( ABX). If it did, you can 'fess up to it. It would demonstrate good taste.But it would be a bad case of 'me-too-ism'.I gave you my reasons. If they seemed without substance, you would have surely responded. And if not you, at least all my other net-opponent friends would have gotten on my case as could be seen daily. You had no care about costs/ benefits ( unexpected, considering your decades of engineering at Boston), appropriateness of building a monument where scores of homeless families don't have the dignity of living like humans. You are unaware of the geography, the lay of the river and what impact it may have on navigation,or at its foot for access ramps etc. But you can educate yourself if you download the Google Earth free-software and go look up Guwahati from the air, quite easily.But all that on the practicality point, provided a conceptual justification could be made. That is where the abject failure of the idea lies.Your idea is rooted in the same kind of silly notion like the monument of Lasit at the military academy in Chennai, as if Assam's discontent is rooted on its not being noticed by India.Suspicion? Heck no Himen-da. It is a well-known fact that the efforts at Hinduization of Assam as a means for perpetuating Indian occupation is what that other light( weight) general and the current one at the guvnor's mansion are dedicated to, with a little help from Assam's own of course.>Chandan Mahanta came up with Statute of Limitation in the USA about which he accused that I did not know.*** I don't know you much Himen da. But from what I did know from our couple of encounters, I thought you are just as clever and informed a person as the rest of us. And on that basis, your claim of being clueless about my referring to the 'statute of limitations' is not persuasive. First it was NOT about the ABX, it was about your thinly disguised, fascist, Muslim-baiting, holding them to be invaders and tyrants six hundred plus years after the fact and casting aspersions on if not questioning directly their rights to citizenship in the land where they have lived for millenia, just because a few centuries back they changed their religious affiliation either under coercion or under free will.And coming from someone like yourself, who probably claimed US citizenship with a mere five or so years in the country, enjoying the benefits and protections of a secular society with a rule of law,it is that much more unbecoming, hypocritical.>About eighty years ago, my uncle, the late Indreswar Barthakur, drew paintings of Sati Jaimati and Lachit. Those >paintings were very inspiring.>I do agree that the statue of Lachit at National Defence Academy and the portrait of Shankardeva in Kharghuli may >not bring forth the life-force of those departed souls. These art-works have been done by commercial artists who >may not have felt the spirit of the departed souls.*** Good for you. I have not seen Barthakur's paintings, and thus will refrain from attempting to judge them on their artistic merit. But on the intellectual aspect of requiring an icon ( or idol ) of either to draw inspiration from is a baggage you too carry from orthodox-Hindu traditions, something Xonkordeu tried so hard to wean the people of Assam from, but obviously not very successfully.>I never asked anyone to build an ugly bridge, or to build a sore-thumb for a statue.*** One does not have to Himen-da. We can draw inferences from the examples of all that have been erected thus far.> you and Chandan Mahanta should be members in the Selection Committee.*** You are kind. But if I were to be anywhere near there, I would wear a placard on my neck and demonstrate against the idea as a ludicrous one.
>I appeal to the artists and architects and bridge engineers of Assam not to copy from anybody.*** Personally, I believe a good copy of something creative in the realm of public structures is a whole lot better than a bad or insipid original.Finally, on the protestations about your innocence on the Hinduttwabadi appearance and the proof you cite to back it up--that Hinduttwawallas attack you on your dowry abolition crusade, you forget that we do know about the many shades that Hinduttwa exponents come in: From the know-nothing,lumpen variety's crude and coercive methods to the suave knowledge-brigades' slick attempts at revising history and manufacturing pseudo-intellectual arguments like you have been indulging in.I don't enjoy having to resort to such strident language again here. Even though I am very un-traditional and irreverent a kharkhowa, I do treat my seniors with a degree of respect and deference. But you leave me with little choice with your very poorly disguised but audacious Muslim-baiting agenda, something you will find very few takers in Assam Net.Regards,ChandanAt 8:55 AM -0500 1/29/06, Himendra Thakur wrote:
Dear Mukul,In response to Sauravs question <<<how much does the statue of lachit at saraighat inspire people?>>> you have replied Not at all ! And we should have no Busts, Statues, Xetus, Tombs, -all alien to our passing times. Everybody does his best in his time--and Go.I have come to know that people of Nagaon has recently named a bridge over the Kolong River after their beloved poet and named it RATNAKANA BARKAKOTI SAKO --- a fitting tribute to a dear, adorable poet of Assamese language. In my life, I cannot forget a bus ride I had from Nagaon to Guwahati (it took 4 hours in those days) when I was suddenly lucky to find that I was sitting next to poet Ratnakanta Barkakoti --- that has remained a lifetime memory for me --- I was a young student at that time. I dont want to write about that memory because Chandan may again accuse me for citing anecdotes which he suspects as an effort for drumbeating personal importance. I still think it is important (maybe even better) to talk from personal experience where we see the things directly instead of reading in a book. But, restrained by Chandan, I better refrain.There are too much of suspicion, implication, blame, accusation, insinuation, etc. in assam-net. The worst is stereotyping, like Christan Khasi Hindu Guvnor Scythian subgroup thukarian, etc.While I proposed ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO and a Statue of Swargadeo Chakradhwaja Sinha, Chandan Mahanta came up with Statute of Limitation in the USA about which he accused that I did not know. He vehemently opposed everything that I proposed by saying that the bridge would be ugly, the statue would stand up like a sore-thumb, people would dump garbage on (or, from) the bridge, etc., etc.I never asked anyone to build an ugly bridge, or to build a sore-thumb for a statue. Mine was an appeal to the artists, architects and bridge-engineers I urge the artists and architects and bridge engineers of Assam to imagine a graceful bridge with poetry in its geometry . About eighty years ago, my uncle, the late Indreswar Barthakur, drew paintings of Sati Jaimati and Lachit. Those paintings were very inspiring. I think those are now lost.I do agree that the statue of Lachit at National Defence Academy and the portrait of Shankardeva in Kharghuli may not bring forth the life-force of those departed souls. These art-works have been done by commercial artists who may not have felt the spirit of the departed souls.The problem can be solved by holding a competition of prototypes by the artists and architects and bridge engineers of Assam and selecting the best art-work you and Chandan Mahanta should be members in the Selection Committee.I appeal to the artists and architects and bridge engineers of Assam not to copy from anybody.
As for the practice of copying by young people, at a get-together at Shankardev Kalakshetra in Guwahati in 2004, I was asked if I had any advise for the your dramatists of Assam. My immediate response was: Dont copy anybody. Write right from your own heart, with your own observations. It may be difficult at the beginning. But, very soon the mind will open up.The prototype art-work submitted in the competition (but not selected as the final winner) maybe saved at a proposed riverside Museum where people will see the noble efforts of all the artists and architects and bridge engineers of Assam people will be inspired, like they were when they named RATNAKANA BARKAKOTI SAKO across our lovely Kolong River.Santanu Roy has objected about simple yearning for a mythical golden past or some attempt to turn back the clock of history and social "progress" . I did not propose ATAN BURGAHAIN SAKO to turn back the clock of history and social progress" it is very clearly stated as a graceful bridge with poetry in its geometry as a permanent and constant reminder of what we achieved in the past. "Atan Buragohain Sako is not for crossing a river. It will take us across three centuries of Time to fill our heart with hope, glory, self-confidence, self-sacrifice and a strong determination.As for your comment Kudos to Saurav-he is indeed Mr.-or Dr Logic , Dr analysis. I am proud for himI must say that I found a number of errors in his analyses and logic, which Ill reply later. Right now, this letter is already too long.With memories of good old days, and appealing to you to give up the anti-India attitude,Himendra
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>_______________________________________________
>assam mailing list
>assam@assamnet.org
>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
_______________________________________________ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
