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Ram:
Pleasedon't mind my saying so, but
have noticed couple of times that you try to come out for somebody else's
defense without giving the person a chance to respond or make his point. I
think this also shows disrespect to the person unless you know for sure the
other person's position. In view of that I will resist responding to
this message and say anything against Himenda simply because I don't know if
what you are saying are also Himend'as point of view. I think you are
talking things out of context. But I would rather show respect to the
person and let him respond.
Barua.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 11:56
AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Acute inferiorty
complex IC
C'da,
I am surprised!
>Himenda's attempts to Sanskritize Oxomiya
words and phrases, demonstrates his own insecurity and inferiority >complex
as an Oxomiya -- driving him to Sanskritized versions of words and phrases. He
even writes 'desh', as in >deshotkoi'.
One could also
argue (quite effectively) that trying to do just the opposite is because of
one's own inferiority complex and insecurity.
If Assamese is
being Sankritized, would that be a scary scenario for some? If so,
why are they scared? Don't they have the confidence that the language is and
always has been strong from these onslaughts?
Look at English. One of the reasons its so
popular is because it borrows heavily from many languages (many Indian ones
included), and the language is ever evolving with inclusions of even words
from American rap music.
So, the question
is: Are Americans or the English have doubts that their language will be
diluted because the English language resorts to constantly borrowing from Non
Anglo-Saxon/Greek/Lantin languages?
My whole take on
this is: Its fine for any language to borrow unique ways of writing some
words from other languages - that only makes the language richer and
becomes inclusive. The option of writing a word like Dex in other
forms (des or desh) might indicate that the language is not just inclusive but
also has several "accepatble" ways of writing certain words. Isn't that more
welcoming to others.
I am no expert in
these matters, and could be totally off base - but these are my thoughts for
the moment and am willing to change them if I could be convinced. AKN should
really weigh in this.
--Ram
On 3/11/06, Chan
Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Very well said Rajen.
BTW, I think the personal statement in his e-mails, Priyankoo's
imagination of 'dex', country--as little more than an idea--'dharona', the
last part of an address; is poetic and beautiful, as opposed to the commonly
used ones as "mother" for example.
Himenda's attempts to Sanskritize Oxomiya words and phrases,
demonstrates his own insecurity and inferiority complex as an Oxomiya --
driving him to Sanskritized versions of words and phrases. He even writes
'desh', as in deshotkoi'. Did Lasit Borphukan speak Sanskrit?
I know you said as much. I just wanted to make it clear,lest it is
missed; even though it is kind of cruel.
I have some thoughts about the context in which he supposedly uttered
the purported quote 'dexotokoi mwmai dangor nohoy', which when I aired last
time in assamnet several years back, drew howls of protest from Oxomiyas who
accepted the act as one of 'heroism'. Will take that up again when I get a
little time. In the meantime, those with tender sensitivities may consider
bracing themselves for another round of assaults to their psyches. I am
giving fair warning!
At 10:16 AM -0600 3/11/06, Barua25 wrote:
Dear
Himen-da:
Thanks
for your note.
Regarding
Assamese having an 'inferiority complex' (written as IC henceforth) I have
been saying this for decades now. This is something one can only feel or
realize seeing the day to day actions of the Assamese people as a group on
national or international level. First we will have to 'recognize the fact
that we have this IC. >From my side I can write a essay citing examples
of Assamese IC. Now some people may not like to agree with me. To
them I will simply ask to either counter my arguments or give me some
examples whereby we can say that Assamese are not suffering from IC.
However, I don't exactly understand when you say we need to discuss this
in the net. What we can achieve by discussing this in the net? And I think
we have discussed this issue many times in the net. This is
something we can remove by our leaders first by getting rid of this 'IC'
themselves and then educating the people by their actions. (Please note that we use the net not
to solve problems but just to use it as a 'sounding borad' to test our
idea's. From that angle the net is a very cruel sounding borad. It will
hit one back and may hurt if the idea is not sound or true.)
Regarding
the slogan "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" I would not like to equate this
unnecessarily with Krishna's killing Bhishma simply because it will not
serve any purpose unless of course one is trying to make poor Lasit an
Assamese Krishna. I think we should not try to defend or
justify Lasit more than what he did. Let us leave it a historical fact and
let us try to utilize this fact to the advantage of the future of the
Assamese. (BTW please note that we try to write ethnic Assamese phonetics
in Roman script in the net as opposed to your Sanskritised transliteration
writing. So we would write the phrase more like
'dexotkoi mwmai dangor
nohoy'. May explain
details later. )
Regarding
your other slogan
"desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari", all I can say is that so far I know
this is a personal statement (a philosophical quote one may say) being
used by Priyanku Sarma in the net. Here again please note that Priyanku
used the correct Assamese ethnic spelling as : Dex matho eta dharona, thikonar
xex xari..., and
not what you spelled above. (Thank you Priyanku). Probably if there is
anything more to its meaning, Priyanku can respond.
Now
coming to the meaning of the word 'dharona ', I
think you are trying too hard to find the meaning in Sanskrit grammar
book. Please note that this is a simple Assamese word, and many a times,
the same word may mean slightly different in Sanskrit than in
Assamese. We should try to use the Assamese meaning. From that point,
'dharona' is a simple Assamese word,
meaning 'conception' or
'idea' or 'comment' etc.
The meaning is clear when we say the Assamese sentence "Ei ghotonatw xomporke twmar
ki dharona baru?" Some
netters like Alpana and others probably may give you better sentence using
the Assamese word
'dharona' .
Anyhow the full meaning of the Priyanku's quote will be : A country is nothing an idea which
is only required to use as a last phrase in one's address.
In fact I like
this poetic (Omor Khyam type) quote, and I can write volumes in support of
this poetic or philosophical statement.
Hope this
will make some clarifications. More later.
Thanks
Rajen
----- Original Message -----
From: Himendra
Thakur
To: Barua25
Cc: Manoj Das ; J Kalita ; Indrajit Barua ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
; Ginima Barua ; Dilip/Dil Deka ; Alpana B.
Sarangapani ; assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:32 AM
Subject: Acute inferiorty complex
Dear Rajen,
Thanks for your letter. The points
that you have raised in this letter should definitely be discussed in
the net.
But, I think what you so
correctly said on March 5, 2006 "Assamese are already suffering from acute
inferiorty complex" should be given to PRIORITY in the discussion in
the assam-net.
I congratulate you
for pointing out this terrible thing "inferiorty complex" and most earnestly request you to run a
discussion on this point in the net. I am trying to start this
discussion by quoting Lachit's "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" (My
uncle is not greater than my country)".
The slogan
"deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" (My uncle is not greater than my
country)" is actually a re-statement of what Lord Shrikrishna stated in
Bhagavadgita. Killing of grand-uncle Bhishma at the "Declared
Battle of Kurukshetra" was justified by Lord Shrikrishna to
establish righteousness. The word "righteousness" is the translation of
the word "dharma" of the verses 7&8 Chapter 4 of Bhagavadgita.
When Lachit said "deshatkoi
momai dangar nohoi" (My uncle is not greater than my country)", he
was using the word "desha" to mean a Motherland whose defense was
our righteous right. What Lachit said at the spur of the moment appears
like a "slogan" to us. This may give some answer to the objection of
Jugal Kalita [I apologize if I misunderstood him] about slogans.
Another slogan is floating in the
net "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari" --- I am
finding it difficult to translate this into English because the meaning
of the word " dharana" is not clear to me. I see "dharana"
as the sixth step of Patanjali's Ashtanga Yoga:
(1) Yama, (2)Niyama, (3) Asana, (4) Pranayama, (5)
Pratyahara, (6)Dharana, (7) Dhyana, and (8) Samadhi.
The propounder of the slogan
"desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari" should give the
meaning of the word "dharana"and explain why "dharana"
has been equated with "desha". Correct me if I am wrong, I
think the slogans like "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh
shari" are generating the acute inferiorty complex" that you pointed
out.
The propounder & supporters of
the slogan "desh matho eta dharana, thikanar shesh shari"
should come forward to compare it with Lachit's "deshatkoi
momai dangar nohoi".
In my opinion, Lachit's
"deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" will expel the acute inferiorty complex
--- a new, unwanted
twist of Assamese mind --- that you so correctly pointed
out.
With the best
wishes,
Himendra
----- Original Message -----
From: Barua25
To: Himendra
Thakur
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Ram Sarangapani ; Manoj Das ; assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:52 PM
Subject: Re: deshatkoi momai dangar
nohoi
Dear
Himenda:
Thanks for your
response. Glad to know that the book was a part of your
course.
Regarding the
historical data of the story, I think you need to have some back up.
Because it is such a horrifying story, it may give the people a
completely different picture about Islam. The actual reality
however may be quite different. The reason I am saying
this is because there is also a opposite side of the story.
According to one theory, the religion that suffered most during the
Islamic invasion was mainly Buddhism. Buddhism was an organised
religion without any defense which was completely wiped out. Hinduism
survived under the caste system. Many Brhamins helped and aided the
Islamic rulers in the destruction of Buddhism. Many Buddhist temples
overnite become Shiva temples etc. Also the theory says that
there was actually no forced conversion at all from Hindus to Islam.
That is why one donot find any high caste Hindus being Muslim. All
that conversion that happened were the low caste Hindus and they
converted themselves to Islam mainly because of the equality that they
gained under Islam and to avoid the exploitation from upper caste
Hindus. Today one finds the whole of Bangladesh a Islamic
country which were at one time wholly a Buddhist country. There were
hardly any Brahmin or any high caste Hindus in Bagladesh. In fact the
exploited downtrodden Hindus were taking shelters from exploitation
from Hindus upper caste in those three shelter religions: namely
Buddhism, Islam and Christianity.
On the other hand
I have heard story of enmass village conversion to Islam not by
force from Islam but due to rejection from the Hindus.
There story appeared in Prantik magazine in Assam, a Brahmin
village in Assam was converted to Islam because somebody has
thrown beef in the village well, and Hindus have refused to accept the
village back as Hindus. The village finally had to take to Islam, The
Sharmas started to write Ahmed overnite etc.
So there may be
many sides of the coin, and one need to be careful in making any
general statement before checking the
facts.
Thanks
Rajen
----- Original Message -----
From: Himendra
Thakur
To: Rajen
Barua
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Ram Sarangapani ;
Manoj Das ; assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:28 PM
Subject: deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi
Dear Rajen,
Sorry for the delay in replying !
The statement that you referred in your letter below
came up in a panel discussion in 1989 at Harvard University where
the manuscript of my book "Don't Burn My Mother!" was discussed in a
movie script-writing course. (By the way, I got an A in that
course ! My added benefit was that I got to see a number of classic
movies with commentaries & discussions at the Harvard
University Movie Club --- those were a few wonderful months for me
!)
Unfortunately, 17 years later now, I don't remember the
name of the history scholar who made that statement. It was my fault
that I did not follow it up to find it in historical reference or
book or article written by any historians. I'll now dig it up and
let you know.
Normally, I furnish a word "assumption" before such
statements, which you may have noticed in my other
writings. IF I
miss, please let me know, I'll correct immediately ! All historical
facts must be supported by cross-reference, according to the
principle of historical studies. I really apologize for missing the
word "assumption" before this statement. I thank you for correcting
me.
In this connection, I urge the netters to ponder over
the �story� that Lachit beheaded his own uncle for lapse of duty in
the Battle of Saraighat and uttered the famous slogan: "deshatkoi
momai dangar nohoi" (My uncle is not greater than my country)
--- this statement was boldly etched at the entrance of the Assam
Assembly Hall in Shillong when Shillong was the capital of
Assam.
Now, I have heard that some people have raised serious
objection that this statement cannot be accepted as historical truth
due to lack of cross-reference. The netters may throw some light on
this.
Throughout my life, I grew up with
Lachit's "deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" , and it
pained me beyond any consolation that I could not include
"deshatkoi momai dangar nohoi" in my article �ATAN
BURAGOHAIN SAKO� because some historian would object. However, in
spite of all precautions, the idea of �ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO� and the
idea of the statue of Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha were rejected on
the grounds that the bridge would encourage garbage dumping, the
statue would be a sore thumb, the existing white pillar is
an excellent "ABSTRACT" element, the statue
of Swargadev Chakradhwaj Singha would be ugly, �what they did in their time
is fine --- we need not build any sako (bridge) or
statue to commemorate them� ------ and a hoard of many
other "wise" comments.
I request the netters to find out the historical truth
about Lachit's "deshatkoi momai dangar nahoi" and
advice me if I can include it in a revised version of the article
�ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO� .
With the best wishes,
Himendra
----- Original Message -----
From: Rajen
Barua
To: Himendra
Thakur ; Shantikam
Hazarika
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 10:17
AM
Subject: invasion of Indo-Gangetic plains by
Muslims
>On January 29, 2006, I clearly wrote in the net
that �To protect a family during the early period of invasion of
Indo-Gangetic plains, if a family of had five >brothers,
two would take conversion to Islam to protect the remaining three.
Dear
Himen-da:
I just want
to ask you one question. Do you have any proof of the above
statement?
If yes, can
you support with any historical reference or book or article
written by any historians?
I never heard
such statement from any quarter. So it is very important that we
absolutely find the truth
Rajen.
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