I think it is important to distinguish between one's view of the present day political entity called India and the historical & cultural connections of the subcontinent called India.
The latter is equally Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Nepali, Kashmiri, Sri Lankan, Bhutanese (and Assamese or Bodo). In fact, it is a fuzzy set - some regions/communities being weaker members than others (depending on what attribute one uses). But the existence of the subcontinental heritage and connectivity is a reality that no one denies. The trouble begins when one uses that as a basis for political state formation. I am not saying this is unique to the Indian state. All political unions need collective fables and history is tailored to provide many - sometimes contrarian stories or myths to opposing sides. Not surprisingly therefore the proponents of independent Assam will reject some stories and accept others; while the proponents of the Indian union will do the opposite. It is better to recognize this, to know that there is nothing like a purely objective history, that it is a reflection of our own way of thinking about ourselves and our view of society and then, to move on. Santanu. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Ram Sarangapani Sent: Fri 2/23/2007 9:31 AM To: Rajiv Baruah Cc: Barua, Rajen; assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Some Assam rare book/map Hi Rajiv You do bring up some interesting things (on influences). >is not widely known that for over a 1000 years Sanskrit and Indian culture was widely >embraced in South East Asia in a manner very reminiscent of the enthusiasm for Americana >that has captured the whole world now I agree commerce (and affluence - in the US, we call this malady- stricken by "Affluenza") do have wide spread influences on language/culture etc. But look at some of the resistance we come across. In Assam (as you see Mukul da often expresses), we see that there are some in Assam who would like to de-link everything in Assam to anything Indian or Hindu or even Sanskrit. A lot of this is done for the sake of saving a fast eroding Assamese identity (and this is not commercial). While this is notable, there are some who would reject any Hindu or Sankrit or Indian influence just because of the sources they come from, and not really considering whether these influences are good or bad. --Ram da On 2/23/07, Rajiv Baruah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hello Ramda, > > Thank you for giving me an opportunity to sound off on my hobby horse - > history of SE Asia. You mentioned ...."there seems to be a lot of > influence." > > There were a lot of influences but most went one way - from India to China > via Buddhist Scholars or via South East Asia. It is not widely known that > for over a 1000 years Sanskrit and Indian culture was widely embraced in > South East Asia in a manner very reminiscent of the enthusiasm for Americana > that has captured the whole world now. In that advance too the primary > motives were growth of profits through trade, and a sense that the globally > connected and laissez-faire culture that came with the foreigners was going > to raise the standard of life of all who adopted it. Just as there was no > military to reinforce the advance of Microsoft, Mickey Mouse or Michael > Jackson, so too was the spread of Indianisation. There has been little sense > that the advance had been planned or co-ordinated by political powers in the > center of innovation, whether in India then, or in the USA now. And the > linguistic effects are similar too: Sanskrit, like English now, had advanced > as a lingua franca for trade, international business and cultural promotion. > [ Nicholas Ostler's Empires of the World - A language history of the world > has a full treatment on the spread and influence of Sanskrit in the first > millenium] > > India can take the credit too for the spread of Islam in Indonesia and > Malaya since it was the Gujrati merchants who were responsible for > converting the Acehnese. > > best regards > > Rajiv > ** > ** > ** > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>, assam@assamnet.org > *Subject: *Re: [Assam] Some Assam rare book/map > > > This is very interesting. Browsing thru any of the "Chinese" > supermarkets in the US, you come across "Leeche". We say "lechu". Don't > which came from which, but it does seem there was a lot of influences. > > --Ram > > On 2/22/07, Rajiv Baruah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Folks, > > > > A small correction about scripts in South East Asia and in India. In > > Ashoka's time, there were about nine scripts in South East Asia, Indonesia > > and the Philippines, that were derived from Indian scripts, many thorugh the > > Pallava script. These SE Asian scripts are Burmese, Lao, Thai,Khmer, > > Javanese, Balinese, Tagalog (Philippines), Batak ( Sumatra) and Bugis ( > > Sulawesi). Incidentally, in the Cambodian pillars that carry rules for > > monastries, Sanskrit in Khmer script one one side is paralleled by Sanskrit > > in a North Indian script on the other. > > > > Interestingly, Sumatra is derived from Samudra, Malaya from a Dravidian > > word Malai - a hill, Java from Yava - dwipa, Cambodia from Kambuja, > > Irrawaddy from Iravati ( means - having drinking water, the old name of Ravi > > river in the Punjab). And so on..... > > > > Also wonder if anyone knows that the Tibetan script too is derived from > > Brahmi. > > > > From what I have seen of Korean, it is definately Chinese in origin and > > inspiration. The difference is that the Korean have taken the Chinese > > pictograms and converted them into a phonetic alphabet, just as the Japanese > > have done to produce the Japanese "kana". > > > > best regards > > > > Rajiv > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ Original Message ------ > > *Received: *Wed, 21 Feb 2007 11:16:54 AM SGT > > *From: *"Rajen & Ajanta Barua" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > *To: *"Ram Sarangapani" < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Barua, Rajen" < > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > *Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > *Subject: *Re: [Assam] Some Assam rare book/map > > > > > > That is becaue at one time, the Indian culture propogated to almost all > > the Southeast countries. Buddhism on one hand and Brahminism alongwith > > the story of Ramayana propogated to all these countries. Along came the > > writing and the Devanagari script. In fact the alphabets all these Southeast > > Asian countries, are based on Devanagari script. Even the Korean language > > alphabet is based on Devanagari script. BTW there is a version of the > > Ramayana in all these countries. The bottomline is, all these countires > > picked up a huge number of Sanskrit words. Thus Rama, Krishna, Arjuna, > > Hanuman names are very common on most of these countries. Indonesia's one > > offshore platform is named Arjuana Platform. The capital of Thailand is > > named Ayudhya, to cite just a few examples. > > I think if one explore, one wil find many Sanskrit words, besides > > Bhumiputra, in many of these countries. > > etc > > > > Rajen Braua > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > *To:* Barua, Rajen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > *Cc:* assam@assamnet.org > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2007 12:34 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Some Assam rare book/map > > > > > > >If you notice, all the names of rivers in Assam are mostly Boro words. > > I think >Brahmaputra is the only one which was successfully Sanskritised. > > > > That is very interesting. > > BTW - I came across the word "Bhumiputera" in Thailand. > > And it means exactly like that - Sons of Soil. > > > > Thanks > > > > --Ram > > > > > > On 2/20/07, Barua, Rajen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > > The word Brahmaputra was spelled various ways by the Europeans > > > before. They used phonetic spelling the way they heard local people > > > pronounce it. I have seen spelling as 'Baramputor' and various others. The > > > spelling 'Brahmaputra" is rather a modern spelling to match the Sanskrit > > > word. BTW Brahmaputra as well as the Luhit are Sanskritised words. > > > Originally It had Boro name which is similar to the word Luit (which I > > > forgot at this time). > > > > > > If you notice, all the names of rivers in Assam are mostly Boro words. > > > I think Brahmaputra is the only one which was successfully Sanskritised. > > > > > > Barua > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > *From:* Ram Sarangapani [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, February 20, 2007 11:36 AM > > > *To:* Barua, Rajen > > > *Subject:* Re: [Assam] Some Assam rare book/map > > > > > > > > > You are welcome. > > > > > > BTW: Was Brahmaputra spelt like "Bramapootra" before? Did the spelling > > > change after independence? > > > > > > And where exactly did Lohit start and Brahmaputra finish? > > > Did you see Sadiya (Xadiya) is also spelt different > > > > > > --Ram > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2/20/07, Barua, Rajen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks Ram for the information. > > > > I heard about the book but did not know it is available. > > > > Barua > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > *On Behalf Of *Ram Sarangapani > > > > *Sent:* Monday, February 19, 2007 10:10 PM > > > > *To:* Assamnet > > > > *Subject:* [Assam] Some Assam rare book/map > > > > > > > > > > > > For those interested in this kind of stuff: > > > > > > > > I came across this rare book on Assam on eBay. Being rare, the book > > > > is quite expensive $1100. > > > > > > > > What was more interesting was that the way the authors spelt > > > > *"Bramapootra > > > > River"* > > > > The modern spelling obviously changed somewhere along the line. > > > > If you look at the accompanying map (all Copyrights belong to the > > > > authors/publishers) closely, you will notice "Lohit", and > > > > "Bramapootra" & > > > > "Assam" > > > > > > > > I couldn't make out the spellings of other areas -its a bit fuzzy. > > > > Anyway, I thought readers may find it interesting. See attached > > > > maps/photos/links > > > > > > > > *The Mishmee hills: an Account of a Journey made in an Attempt to > > > > Penetrate Thibet from Assam to open new Routes for Commerce. > > > > **Publisher*: London: Henry S. King & Co., 1873. *Very Rare First > > > > Edition * > > > > ** > > > > *Notes:* Account of a journey made in 1869"(Yakushi C344) from > > > > Sudiya in Assam via Brahmakund to Prun on the Bramapootra River. > > > > > > > > 1873 Cooper MISHMEE HILLS Tibet - RARE FIRST EDITION > > > > > > > > http://item.express.ebay.com/Books_Antiquarian-Collectible-Books__1873-Cooper-MISHMEE-HILLS-Tibet-RARE-FIRST-EDITION_W0QQitemZ280020665176QQihZ018QQddnZBooksQQadnZAntiquarianQ20Q26Q20CollectibleQ20BooksQQcmdZExpressItem > > > > > > > > --Ram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the > > > individual or entity to whom it is addressed. > > > Its contents (including any attachments) may contain confidential > > > and/or privileged information. > > > If you are not an intended recipient you must not use, disclose, > > > disseminate, copy or print its contents. > > > If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply > > > e-mail and delete and destroy the message. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > assam mailing list > > assam@assamnet.org > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
