Jyotirmoy-da,
So do you support ULFA's attack on Hindi speaking people in Jan 2007 which
killed 67 people.
*** I do not hear the Nagas, Manipuris blowing up their own population in the
name of freedom struggle. They may have had conflicts within their groups and
may have fought and killed rival group members but never have they targeted the
general population.
Umesh
Jyotirmoy Sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I believe that Ram has explained the points very aptly. Just adding a few
comments.
>*** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of
modern history?
>Would you like to explain?
I do not hear the Nagas, Manipuris blowing up their own population in the
name of freedom struggle. They may have had conflicts within their groups and
may have fought and killed rival group members but never have they targeted the
general population.
Would you still believe in their cause and their means had you lost a family
member in one of their indiscriminate blasts?
> I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you?
Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram >or
JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and
get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is >this some kind
of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you
think it is working? Even in India's fight for independence we have had true
revolutionaries who may have gone out of the country to seek help to fight
the enemy( British ) but they have come back to the country to fight for the
cause they believed in. In ULFA's case the leaders have simply vanished from
the battle zone and surrendered themselves to become pawns of Bangladeshi
agents.
>- They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the >people
they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ?
*** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and
dying for a cause.
Mr Mahanta, try telling that to someone who has lost a loved one by ULFA's
guns or their blasts.
It is not hard to realize that there is no "cause" they are fighting for. The
ULFA leaders are prominent Bangladeshi citizens now and living up their life
with extortion money while their lower rungs are dodging bullets, army and the
people in general.
Mr Mahanta, you would do well to realize the ground facts. The Bodos, Karbis,
Dimasas, Bengalis( from the Barak valley) do not support the ULFA nor have they
given them the onus to act/speak on their behalf. A few Assamese may still feel
for the terrorists but they are a dying breed. I would have thought there is
more support for the outfit among the Assamese citizens in the US, the lack of
response to my questions seem to suggest otherwise.
J.Sharma
On 15/05/2007, at 9:40 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
C'da
>*** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern
history?
>Would you like to explain?
Let me try!
First of, the ulfa cannot really be considered "revolionaries". A revolution
(Like the French etc) are a mass-scale uprising of some sort against an
establishment. The ulfa (as some would like to elevate) is nowhere close to
that lable
So, in that context, modern revolutions have always been about "protecting the
masses" against tyrants. In the Assam context, can you give some stark examples
where such a thing has happened? And yes, C'da why is these "home-grown"
revoltionaries hell bent on killing and looting from Assamese people (and don't
forget Dhemaji) - now there was a great example of your revolutionaries giving
up blood & treasure (of course, it matters little that blood spilled was not
theirs).
> I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you?
Assuming that was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram >or
JS, in the position of those ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and
get arrested or get erased in some encounter, real or fake? Is >this some kind
of a question to make the ULFA leaders look like 'cowards'? If it is, do you
think it is working?
If the 'leaders' were holed up in B'desh and making war plans/strategic plans
against the big, bad ogre called India, it may have carried some semblence of
resptability - but to hole up elsewhere, goad/egg other to the battles, and all
the while amass huge personal wealth, (as reported by the US think tank -
Stratfor. com), getting help from BD intel and ISI (who will just as easily
slit an Assamese throat as they would an "Indian") is beyond me.
So, now this "holing up" in Bangladesh is really a strategic plan - could
have knocked me out with a feather! How could I have missed that
>First off, if 'THEY' were residing in a foreign land, why is it that India
and Indians claim >ULFA is fighting in Assam? Isn't that a contradiction?
I am just trying here - don't know exactly what JS meant.
Why is this a contradiction - the leaders stay in BD - making the big war
plans, while the "low-level" cadres do the dirty job in Assam.
>*** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and
dying for a cause.
>You may not agree with their cause.
We have all been hearing about this big cause for a long time. Then why is
that the whole of Assam have NOT joined
and or signed on the dotted line? Do you know why?
>That is how it works in a violent CONFLICT. That is WHY it is a violent
CONFLICT.
Whew! Now that somehow makes us all feel better. Of course, all the people of
Assam gave the green signal for ULFA to go violent and now it (the ulfa) acts
as the sole torch bearer for God & country.
One question, if these 'revs' are NOT even able to fight from their home
base (that they are forced to go to another country to do so), what odds do
you, as a pragmatist, give them for any kind of win?
Even the country these people take refuge in (BD) is not able to take on the
bad boy on the block (India) what are the chances for the "revs". Do you think
perhaps, that there is no fun for them to end this 'insurgency Kamadhenu'.
Whatever will they do if this all ends - Work for a living? Good grief ! :)
--Ram
On 5/14/07, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ram:
Just out of curiosity:
>Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries
killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace,
*** Is this for a fact or a demonstration of profound ignorance of modern
history? Would you like to explain?
>- Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is
>creating economic and social disorder in our state?
*** This is another bright question no doubt and someone of my caliber would
be hard-pressed to answer. But since you press the point , allow me to take a
shot ( pun intended):
First off, if 'THEY' were residing in a foreign land, why is it that
India and Indians claim
ULFA is fighting in Assam? Isn't that a contradiction?
I suspect you and JS intended SOME of the ULFA leaders, didn't you?
Assuming that
was what it was, let me ask you this: If it were you, Ram or JS, in
the position of those
ULFA leaders, what would you do? Play STUPID and get arrested or get
erased in some
encounter, real or fake? Is this some kind of a question to make the
ULFA leaders look
like 'cowards'? If it is, do you think it is working?
If you asked me it is a pretty dumb question, really. And dumber
expectation.
>- They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the >people
they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ?
*** Another abjectly dumb question again. These are people fighting and
dying for a cause. You may not agree with their cause. That is how it works in
a violent CONFLICT. That is WHY it is a violent CONFLICT. One side does not
agree with the other and neither siude is asbout to play dead. Under the
circumstances, expecting an antagonist here to play NEUTRAL ( or UNBIASED to
echo the favorite kharkhowa/desi terminology) demonstrates an absence of an
ability to reason like an adult with ordinary intelligence. But I have trouble
believing that about JS and I know you do not fit that mold. So what is the
explanation Ram?
Anyone expecting an answer to questions like that would merely be
demonstrating their living in denial, unable to accept the widely prevalent and
discernible truths that surround them like so nmany Indians seem to do.
I hate to see you act so disoriented a desi, Ram :-)
c-da
At 1:00 PM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
C'da >Why would anyone want to go pick a fight with someone who would
proclaim "--- There is another way to look at it. Perhaps, one could
address this utter frustration with ulfa's antics and the 'ulfa did nor wrong'
crowd. The recommendations from JS may be strong, but there is a lot of truth
in what he says about the unstable situation in the state created by ULFA - and
the fact that the state (as it is overburdened with other problems) is now
having face the "insurgency" problem. Why can't ulfa sympathizers answers
at least some of the questions like JS asks/comments: Nowhere in the
history of any struggle have the revolutionaries
killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace,
- Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is
creating economic and social disorder in our state?
- They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people
they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ? These and other
questions have been asked before - and we have YET to receive prompt, short
(no spin) ansers So, just Ignoring, the "punishment" as JS demnds is really
NOT a solution. Why can't someone just answer to the questions. -Ram
On 5/14/07, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>JS has thrown the gauntlet, now its up to them to pick it up :)
*** It could be considered such only when there is even a modicum of
SUBSTANCE or realism behind a charge. Why would anyone want to go pick a
fight with someone who would proclaim "---The only solution left, I believe,
is to eliminate every ULFA member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. "
It would be like challenging an Indian who would put a man on the Moon in 2010;
or recommend that all those who do not agree with him be banished to
'koliyapani'; wouldn't it?
c-da
At 11:49 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
Hehehe C'da,
I knew that would catch your attention. What JS says maybe an extreme
outburst, probably from someone young - but that is how many of the younger
generation in Assam feel. What kind of answers do you have for them - or do you
think their feelings ought to just brushed aside?
>But, I will really like to see some die-hard sympathizers put JS in >his
place :) :).
C'da - you are expecting too much out of me.
JS, right or wrong, has made a stand. Now, the ball is in the other court.
People like me will sit this out for a while atleast and see what happens. At
some point, I will come in to defend JS if he needs it - I have a feeling, he
won't. He has done good so far.
>If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, ?are all
it takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would >have been no
problem left in Assam , not to mention India.
No, they are not - but on this net, its a rare commodity.
>instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA >sympathizers, who will
only make the issue more muddy :-)?
Me? Are they turning to me now? Something is really rotten in Denmark:), and
no, I am not passing the buck here - as I ain't no sympathazer. I would expect
them sympathizers to be up in arms even if they circle the wagons and make it
muddier:)
JS has thrown the gauntlet, now its up to them to pick it up :)
--Ram
On 5/14/07, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Ram:
Saw your comments to Sharma's anguished outburst with his wishful
recommendations and conclusions.
Good that Sharma is letting off steam. But as an informed and experienced
NRA, I would have hoped to see you explaining to Sharma the profound flaws in
his line of thinking, even though I know you are unable to free your own
thought processes entirely from a blind devotion to the derelict Indian state
:-).
If audacity and the willingness to vent -- whatever that might be, are all it
takes to resolve problems of this kind, then there would have been no problem
left in Assam , not to mention India.
So, what is missing?
Don't you think you, as someone more knowledgeable, and more experienced than
obviously Sharma is,; have an obligation to help him see things in a more
mature light; instead of passing the buck to them despicable ULFA sympathizers,
who will only make the issue more muddy :-)?
c-da
At 6:04 AM -0600 5/14/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
Welcome JS to the Assamnet. That was a pretty straight forward post, if there
was one, in these forums in a long time. I welcome that fresh air of audacity :)
There are a few die-hard ulfa supporters and sympathizers in this forum too.
I am sure some of them will respond to your post, and so will wait to see waht
they write.
--Ram
On 5/14/07, Jyotirmoy Sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
After reading about the endless sequence of bomb blasts that this
terrorist outfit is causing throughout Assam I cannot see how a
sensible person can ever think of negotiating with such a terrorist
outfit. The only solution left, I believe, is to eliminate every ULFA
member and put all their sympathizers behind bars. Those living
abroad and found assisting the outfit in any way should be barred
from entering Assam.
Nowhere in the history of any struggle have the revolutionaries
killed their own people in one hand and talked of fighting for peace,
prosperity and freedom on the other. What is even more surprising is
that there are groups(read PCPIA and others) who have openly become
the spokesperson of the outfit. They are never short in condemning
when the Army kills a terrorist but hardly raise a voice when
innocent people are getting slaughtered in their bomb blasts. Yes, it
is true that the Army has killed and tortured innocent people in
Assam but then the Army wouldn't be there in Assam if we didn't have
the disease in the first place.
Some questions which a pro-ULFA supporter may care to answer: - Why do they
reside in a foreign country, the population of which is
creating economic and social disorder in our state?
- Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when
confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members
are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by
their bomb attacks at public places?
- Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people?
- They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the
people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons ?
This problem has gone on for too long. If Punjab militancy could be
eliminated I don't see why Assam should be different. Assam is better
off with the freedom we have under India than under these terrorists
called ULFA.
Jyotirmoy
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Umesh Sharma
Washington D.C.
1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005
http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/
http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
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