>>> Indian engineers, by and large cannot fix a leaky plumbing pipe, repair an
>>> electric motor, build or even design a bamboo bridge or are trained to
>>> design a better mousetrap.
But why is that? This lamentation or habitual comment , like many others,
have become a cliche.
In Assam, except trying to share the loot, there is no effort for industrial
growth or economic development. Even the persons owning the expensive houses,
cars and such other social indicators in Guwahati are mostly erstwhile
militants, owners of Non Government Organisations, politicians, middleman etc
that are not adding to the goods or services really.There is a method in the
whole thing. It must be to keep Assam a hinterland to benefit some other places.
Similarly, we were taught English literature in the schools, most of us were
mortally afraid of the subject and we could not utter a single sentence in that
language. It would be naive to believe that there had never been a design to
produce such stillborns.
Therefore, churning out engineers who cannot fix a leaky plumbing pipe,
repair an electric motor, build or even design a bamboo bridge or are trained
to design a better mousetrap, must also have a design some where.
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There is nothing wrong with an engineer becoming a 'bania'. There is no
moral, social or cultural prohibition against that. Nor is it a sin of any kind
for a company to hire top engineering graduates to man call centers. After all,
even those with engineering training need to make a living.
The issue is with PUBLIC funding of engineering training, which of necessity,
is far more expensive than some of the other disciplines of learning. If all
that expenditure at the IITs turn out stockbrokers for
US investment companies, somebody is losing out huge. Guess WHO!
Indian engineers, by and large cannot fix a leaky plumbing pipe, repair an
electric motor, build or even design a bamboo bridge or are trained to design
a better mousetrap. India needs far more people trained for these tasks than
turn out engineers to man call centers. But these jobs, trades will not attract
the able, because of :
*** Indian social stigma . You are going to be a plumber? Horror of
horrors. Oh, his son
is JUST an electrician. What a shame. That is all he became with a
first division at HS
and two letters!
*** Refusal to compensate adequately for such services. An engineer,
by social status
( not by skill now) will always be paid a far higher compensation
than an electrician or
a mechanic.
So there is NO incentive for the able to enter a field that not only serves
ones's economic needs, but also helps nation building. They best of the lot
therefore will automatically enter the legendary Indian 'babudom', producing
little, never having a chance to utilizing their creative abilities or
productivity. But at least their economic well-being will be guaranteed.
Compare that with a sharp American highschool graduate who will get far
higher starting salary than a graduate engineer or even one with a post
graduate degree. And his status in society would not be any less than that of
the engineer next door. He will be coaching the kids' soccer team, will run for
elective office, serve as a board member of the local hospital foundation and
be a respected elder of the local church. And he keeps industry running
smoothly.
So the problem is PUBLIC POLICY! Governmental policy. And social/cultural
attitudes.
At 10:05 PM -0700 7/30/07, umesh sharma wrote:
Mridul-da,
Hmmm I can see where the anti-entrepreneurship attitude is leading to. Perhaps
you have heard that engineers are also becoming CEOs --IITians have become
phonemal investmant bankers -helped by the fact that not only they are good
number crunchers but alo they understand engineering companies better . You
might have heard of one Rajat Gupta who was an IITian , Harvard MBA and lead
McKinsey -a company which is into "bania" like activities.
Umesh
Mridul Bhuyan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear Dilip Da, My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India.
In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA, ABB, SIEMENS,
Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not because they need them
all, but due to the fact thay are available at a cheaper price. The call
centres are also hiring engineers because they are available at the same price
tag as that of an BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about
10/12 engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who are
working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank etc. In call
centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is understandable, however, I
doubt what type of specialist jobs they are doing, which can't be handled by a
software programmer. Recently, I met one first class mechanical engineer from
AEC (that too with very high scores), working in American Express, doing
customer service. Let's talk about our great 'Bania' Company
Reliance Energy (Engaged in distribution of power in portion of Delhi). They
would've employed the cheapest available non-technical manpower, had it not
been for the high voltage circuit breakers, transformers, they have to handle.
But they are now recruiting engineers only for almost all category of jobs
except for finance, because the supply is abundant. You can get a fresh
engineer for Rs.3.0 lakhs per annum, but a MBA costs almost twice that amount.
They transform the Engineer to an excellent manager with their bania
expertise.:). So, tell me how creativity comes in to the picture. As pointed
out by Uttam, Private sector is all about acquiring max. ouput with minimum
cost. Hope, the picture is clearer now. Regards Mridul
Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mridul, How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and
private sectors? If the private sector also is employing engineers just for the
sake of providing employment or because there is a position open for an
engineering degree holder, then there is a big problem. I don't know whether
you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how it is in the Indian private
sector. Dilip Deka
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being creative or not
makes any difference. Regarding most of the engineering jobs in India, except
in a few cases, I am not sure, if Engineers are required at all :)
Mridul Bhuyan
**** You are sooo right Mridul!
What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of India. They
need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they do not know, but it is
from their own personal insecurities about who or what they identify with.
c-da
Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Umesh,
Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer should be
good in math, just to survive in the field. The design engineers need to know
what is behind the softwares they use now a days to solve engineering problems.
There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute without
being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent 30+ years in the
field, including management of engineers, I should know something about
engineers by now.
A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
Dilipda
umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
C-da,
But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at high school
levele - not at an engineering college.
***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an
ability or have the aptitude to develop it
Umesh
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
Netters with interest in science will find this article interesting. Math is
used in all sciences, so obviously good fundamental knowledge in math helps
students in all branches of science. A good grasp of math in high school helps
engineering students as well, across the board.
*** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound primary
education where math fundamentals take root or die. If you look at the
percentage of students in Assam who have a decent knowledge of math
fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in science, technology etc.
But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself, does not
guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do well in the academic
exams, can even get good jobs, not just as engineers, but in a lot of other
fields, but real engineering also requires creativity -- something Indian
engineering schools rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an
ability or have the aptitude to develop it .
Dilip
==================================================================
umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html
Umesh Sharma
Washington D.C.
1-202-215-4328 [Cell]
Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005
http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
http://jaipurschool.bihu.in/
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Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005
http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
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Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class of 2005
http://www.uknow.gse.harvard.edu/index.html (Edu info)
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/ (Management Info)
www.gse.harvard.edu/iep (where the above 2 are used )
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