>That was very good Ram. I am sure everyone is breathing a sigh of relief, >now that you let them in on the big secret of HOW to clean house.
>Why do you guys continue to incite my sarcastic side with this kind of stuff >Ram? I have a hard enough time keeping it under control. >Seriously though, I was hoping you would suggest a tad bit more specific >ideas or ways to clean house at Dispur. Now, now, C'da, this is just learned behavior, and guess whom I learned this from:) Cleaning house in Dispur may seem to be a simple question, but you know as well any of us, that the soultion to such a huge problem has to be a detailed, multi-pronged approach, and there are no clear cut & dried solutions out there. The answer you are seeking is quite similar to the one many of us have sought from you and others- regarding how Assam would be 'managed better', what are the plans for the state, etc - without the yoke of Dilli upon its shoulders. And all these years, many people have enquired about this from different angles, and to different people, but the responses were always vague, missing the mark, & just plain 'beating around the bush'. But, I don't mind - I know the answer is a difficult one - as in reality there is no one anywhere who knows what the 'ideal' solution is. Nevertheless, its a possibility that you do have some such panacea, a cure all for Assam, and perhaps you won't mind sharing it with us? --Ram On 2/16/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >this has to be a statewide effort > > and must involve the various student groups, citizen's committees, the > > media, and other. > > That was very good Ram. I am sure everyone is breathing a sigh of relief, > now that you let them in on the big secret of HOW to clean house. > > Why do you guys continue to incite my sarcastic side with this kind of > stuff Ram? I have a hard enough time keeping it under control. > > Seriously though, I was hoping you would suggest a tad bit more specific > ideas or ways to clean house at Dispur. But of course, IF I had thought you > would have something credible to offer, I would not have asked you for it to > begin with. The question was designed to make your argument look bad . And > you did not fail to live down to the expectations. > > >Some of these groups are already taking steps to help. > > **** Well, how should I respond this now? I better shut up lest things get > out of hand. > > c-da :-) > > > > > > > > > > > ---- Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > C'da, > > > > >*** How does one propose to get the house cleaning >accomplished ? > > >What will be the steps taken and who will take them > > > > There was a big "if" there - nevertheless, this has to be a statewide > effort > > and must involve the various student groups, citizen's committees, the > > media, and other. Some of these groups are already taking steps to help. > > > > Now, it is the turn of those who are hell-bent of wresting controls from > > Dilli to explain how they would make Assam proud? > > > > --Ram > > > > > > On 2/15/08, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > **** Here is a whole slew of arguments here that present the symptoms > > > as the causes. But lacking time to deal with all of them, let me ask > > > Ram just one question: > > > > > > > > > > > > >If Assam can get a good grip on this, she can show the rest of India > how > > > it > > > >is done. Let Assam become a model, but till then, blaming Dilli at > will > > > >doesn't get Assam anywhere (well, it actually gets worse). > > > > > > > > > > > > *** How does one propose to get the house cleaning accomplished ? > > > What will be the steps taken and who will take them? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 12:38 PM -0600 2/15/08, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > >Uttam, > > > > > > > >>The question was why the sudden spurt of violence in Maharashtra and > > > >eruption of resentments >supposedly against north indians. > > > > > > > >The problem is not unique to Maharastra. There are two main factors > > > playing > > > >into this. One is politics of divisivness - its helps the Sena to no > end. > > > >The second is these politicians play with the needs and sometimes > even > > > >religious/caste dogmas. Given these ingredients, it is easy to bring > the > > > >'sons of soil' argument. > > > > > > > >If one were to go back into history - Hitler and Goebbles > successfully > > > made > > > >the German people believe that the Jews were the cause of all their > woes. > > > >That kind of strategy works very well when the target is a minority > > > group. > > > >That is an extreme example, but water it down, change the ingredients > a > > > bit, > > > >and you can have a Maharastra or a Gujarat any day. > > > > > > > >>But what are the bases of such resentments; what are the reasons of > the > > > >outbursts > > > > > > > >The reasons for the outbursts are as above. As for resentments, we > have > > > to > > > >dig down deeper. Some are the results of bad policies, bureacracy in > > > Govt. > > > >or runaway corruption. While others are far more deep-rooted. > > > >People in many parts of India have held deep mistrust for other > groups > > > and > > > >for generations. > > > > > > > >There is mistrust between religious groups, language groups, castes, > etc. > > > >Basically, anything that makes people different, can and is used > against > > > >them so that others climb the economic/social ladder a few more > steps.. > > > > > > > >>But excessive centralisation indicates inner weaknesses and the > > > periphery > > > >tends to move > > > > > > > >Excess of anything is lousy. But who decides where the lines ought to > be > > > >drawn or erased? Obviously it won't be C'da or myself :) > > > > > > > >IMHO - its very easy to say how and where these lines ought to be > drawn > > > and > > > >who ought to be in control? > > > >As long as there are acute economic problems, corruption, and people > > > steeped > > > >in religious/caste dogmas etc there will always be this unhealthy > > > >competition. > > > > > > > >Again IMHO, the solution, at least for Assam might be (even under a > Delhi > > > >mandate) to clean house. Eradicate corruption, protect our all our > > > resources > > > >- well at least wildlife, mining and agri., make local officials from > PWD > > > & > > > >flood control engineers to ministers and babus accountable. > > > > > > > >If Assam can get a good grip on this, she can show the rest of India > how > > > it > > > >is done. Let Assam become a model, but till then, blaming Dilli at > will > > > >doesn't get Assam anywhere (well, it actually gets worse). > > > > > > > >--Ram da > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On 2/15/08, uttam borthakur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Ram Da, > > > >> > > > >> The question was why the sudden spurt of violence in Maharashtra > and > > > >> eruption of resentments supposedly against north indians. You are > > > absolutely > > > >> correct in saying that parochialism may not have any limits. ( A > boy > > > from > > > >> Guwahati is not a local at Sivasagar when it comes to a tender or > a > > > job in > > > >> the ONGCL). But what are the bases of such resentments; what are > the > > > reasons > > > >> of the outbursts- whether those are sponataneous, or those > engineered > > > for > > > >> personal gains of a few, and at whose expense? That is whether it > is > > > an > > > >> infighting among the ruling polity where the aspirants advertise > their > > > own > > > >> interests as the interest of the people/group they lead, or it is > a > > > mere > > > > > fatricidal war among different groups of the people at large? > Chandan > > > Da > > > >> perhaps is of the view that the aspirants here clamour for the > share > > > of the > > > > > loot thrown their way by a centralised power structure that claim > not > > > to be > > > >> so. But excessive centralisation indicates inner weaknesses and > the > > > >> periphery tends to move > > > >> away as in a centrifuge. > > > >> > > > >> Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> Ram: > > > >> > > > >> I can answer the question but I would let you figure that out > > > >> yourself. Here is a clue: > > > >> > > > >> **** How did Dispur get to be what it is? > > > >> > > > >> If you try to work backwards from here, and if you prefer NOT to > > > >> AVOID unpleasant questions, you will find ALL the answers you will > > > >> ever need. And ALL the SOLUTIONS to them too. > > > >> > > > >> So, go get 'em Tiger :-). > > > >> > > > >> c-da > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> At 9:42 AM -0600 2/15/08, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > >> >C'da > > > >> > > > > >> >>*** Until such time as India learns to recognize > > > >> >>the differences and respect them, and let the > > > >> >>people find their own solutions to their own > > > >> >>issues and problems, instead of dictating from > > > >> >>Dilli, little will change. > > > >> > > > > >> >OK - how far are you willing to decentralize? Should it be left > to > > > Dispur > > > >> to > > > >> >dictate to all of Assam? Or there be further decentralizations? > > > >> > > > > >> >Frankly, its hardly the system - its the people in the system who > > > make up > > > >> >the governance. A similar system (like in India) exists in > England, > > > and > > > >> it > > > >> >seems to be doing fine. > > > >> > > > > >> >Does Dispur understand the salient differences and problems that > you > > > harp > > > >> >upon, existing within Assam itself ( or the NE for that matter)? > > > >> > > > > >> >--Ram > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> >On 2/15/08, Chan Mahanta wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >> >> At 5:42 AM +0000 2/15/08, uttam borthakur wrote: > > > >> >> >If those who control ARE to eradicate, then they > > > >> >> >will not have the chance to exploit the > > > >> >> >resentments for their own gains at the expense > > > >> >> >of the people. So, they are out. Those who are > > > >> >> >presently being controlled and are also the > > > >> >> >victims SHOULD try to root out the causes of > > > >> >> >resentments. But that is normative. Some may be > > > >> >> >trying, but it has not borne fruit. Whether it > > > >> >> >is possible within the present framework has > > > >> >> >also been a moot point. 'Nana Munir Nana Mot'. > > > >> >> >Till success is achieved, this will remain > > > >> >> >debatable. What do you say Chandan Da? > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> *** Until such time as India learns to recognize > > > >> >> the differences and respect them, and let the > > > >> >> people find their own solutions to their own > > > >> >> issues and problems, instead of dictating from > > > >> >> Dilli, little will change. India will continue to > > > >> >> totter along, fractured, unable to come together > > > >> >> for the greater good of ALL. In the process many > > > >> >> will lose their lives in violence, many will be > > > >> >> uprooted, many will die untimely deaths, and a > > > >> >> few will laugh all the way to the bank on the > > > >> >> backs of the dispossessed waving the flags of an > > > >> >> aspiring world power. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >Chan Mahanta wrote: > > > > >> >> >So, resentments must be addressed. There is no > > > >> >> >>point in trying to shoo those away. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >*** I agree. And unless there ARE simmering > > > >> >> >resentments, they could NOT be exploited for > > > >> >> >narrow political or personal gains to the > > > >> >> >detriment of society. > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >Now the big question is IF these resentments CAN > > > >> >> >be eradicated under the circumstances? And if > > > >> >> >yes, by WHO? Those who control things? Or the > > > >> >> >controlled? What is the incentive for those who > > > >> >> >are in control to change? > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >At 6:18 PM +0000 2/14/08, uttam borthakur wrote: > > > >> >> >>Resentments do have bases: real or illusory or both. > > > >> >> >> So, resentments must be addressed. There is no > > > >> >> >>point in trying to shoo those away. > > > >> >> >> But right now in Maharashtra, those who try to > > > >> >> >>cash in on such resentments for their personal > > > >> >> >>political agenda, are fomenting trouble. In > > > >> >> >>Assam too such forces have been successfully > > > >> >> >>hoodwinking people time and again, playing on > > > > > >> >>people's resentments for their personal > > > >> >> >>political agenda. > > > >> >> >> Ultimately the persons like Raj or Bal or > > > >> >> >>Prafulla or Tarun or Bhorot or their cronies > > > > > > > >>gain: victims being always the same. > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >>Chan Mahanta wrote: > > > >> >> >> >Agreed. But two wrongs don't make a right. Isn't it? > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >>**** No, it does not. > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >>But to deny its existence is a delusion at best. > > > >> >> >>It is alive and well across the length and > > > >> >> >>breadth of the sub-continent. And there are good > > > >> > > >>reasons for it. > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >>Those who raise shrill voices singling out > > > >> >> >>Oxomiya resentments as unique, while waving a > > > >> >> >>mythical > > > >> >> >>flag of equality and unity, do so either out of > > > >> >> >>abject ignorance or malice or both. > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >>That is what I wanted to point out :-). > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >>At 10:11 PM -0600 2/13/08, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: > > > >> >> >>> > **** But that would not explain this, would > > > >> >> >>>it? They are of the same race. > > > >> >> >>>There may not be a proper word for them yet, but > > > >> >> >>>all these go to the same group of being hateful > > > >> >> >>>to the ones that are not from the same klan or > > > >> >> >>>class or race or region or what have you, isn't > > > >> >> >>>it? > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>>Add casteism to it and you will get a perfect > > > >> >> >>>picture of how an Indian mind work. > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>>> **** And is this reminiscent of Oxomiya > > > > >> >> >>>>resentments? If so, are the Oxomiyas unique > > > >> >> >>>>in > their resentments, as some would have us > > > >> >> >>>>believe > here? > > > >> >> >>>Agreed. But two wrongs don't make a right. Isn't it? > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>>"In order to make spiritual progress you must be > > > >> >> >>>patient like a tree and humble like a blade of > > > >> >> >>>grass" > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> > >> > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:15:09 -0600> To: > > > >> >> >>>[email protected]> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >> >> >>>Subject: Re: [Assam] What is Going in > > > >> >> >>>Maharashtra?> > At 2:52 PM -0600 2/13/08, Alpana > > > >> >> >>>B. Sarangapani wrote:> >Hi C'da:> >> >> What am > > > >> >> >>>I missing?> >> >Or forgot that Indians, in > > > >> >> >>>general, are the most > >close and > > > >> >> > >>narrow-minded, prejudiced and racist > >people > > > >> >> >>>alive on the face of the earth?> > > **** But > > > >> >> >>>that would not explain this, would it? They are > > > >> >> >>>of the same race.> > Is it cultural hegemony?> > > > > >> >> >>>Is it economic controls?> > **** And is this > > > >> >> >>>reminiscent of Oxomiya > resentments? If so, are > > > >> >> >>>the Oxomiyas unique in > their resentments, as > > > >> >> >>>some would have us believe > here?> > > **** > > > >> >> >>>Finally, where did the much touted great > > > > >> >> >>>Indian Unity in Diversity disappeared , from > > > >> >> >>>its > most cosmpolitan metropolis, unless it > > > >> >> >>>was > another Indian myth?> > > > > >> >> >>>:-)> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >"In > > > >> >> >>>order to make spiritual progress you must > > > >> >> >>>be > >patient like a tree and humble like a > > > >> >> >>>blade of > >grass"> >> >> >> >> >> >> Date: Wed, > > > >> >> >>>13 Feb 2008 14:36:00 -0600> > > > >> >> >>>To: > >>[email protected]> From: > > > >> >> >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Subject: [Assam] What > > > >> >> >>>is Going in > >>Maharashtra?> > I hadn't > > > >> >> >>>followed what has led > >>to what I saw in the > > > >> >> >>>ToI article > below. But I > >>am very curious > > > >> >> >>>about claims of Indians in this > >>forum > that > > > >> >> >>>Mumbai is the MOST cosmpolitan of > >>Indian > > > >> >> >>>metropolitan regions, > where such > >>conflicts > > > >> >> >>>as this does not exist.> > From > >>recent > > > >> >> >>>outpouring of certain > > > >> >> >>>assamnetters' > >>revulsion towards and > > > > >> >> >> >condemnation of their > >>fellow Oxomiyas, whom > > > >> >> >>>they perceive to be > > >>uniquely xenophobic, > > > >> >> >>>this news is certainly > >>coming as a > > > >> >> >>>surprise. > More so because it is > >>coming > > > >> >> >>>from Mumbai.> > What am I > > > >> >> >>>missing?> > > >>cm> > > > > > > > > Maha exodus: > > > >> >> >>>10,000 north > >>Indians flee in fear> 14 Feb > > > >> >> >>>2008, 0030 hrs > >>IST,TIMES NEWS NETWORK & > > > > > >> >>>AGENCIES> Print Save > >>EMail Write to > > > >> >> >>>Editor> > NASHIK/PATNA: With > >>violence > > > >> >> >>>against north Indians in this > >>industrial > > > > > > >> >>>town and adjoining areas showing > >>no signs of > > > >> >> >>>abating on the second > consecutive > >>day, the > > > >> >> >>>number of migrants fleeing for their > >>homes > > > >> >> >>>- > mostly in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar > > > >> >> >>>- > >>crossed 10,000, making it perhaps > one of > > > >> >> >>>the > >>largest exodus in the country from a > > > >> >> >>>single > >>district in > recent years.> > And > > > >> > > >>>ironically, > >>on the second day of attacks, > > > >> >> >>>its first victim > >>wasn't > from UP or Bihar; > > > >> >> >>>he was from Ojhar, a > >>mere 21 km from > > > >> >> >>>Nashik.> > Ambadas Haribhau > >>Dharrao, 55, an > > > >> >> >>>employee of Hindustan > >>Aeronautics > Ltd, was > > > >> >> >>>fatally wounded when > >>Maharashtra Navnirman > > > >> > > >>>Sena activists on > > >>Wednesday attacked and > > > >> >> >>>pelted stones at the bus > >>he was travelling > > > >> >> >>>in.> > The violence started > >>10 days back > > > >> >> >>>when MNS activists attacked > >>migrant > > > > >> >> >>>workers as the Samajwadi Party held a > >>rally > > > >> >> >>>in Mumbai.> > Since then, MNS chief > > > >> >> >>>Raj > >>Thackeray has carried on a > > > >> >> >>>vitriol-laced > > >>campaign against north > > > >> >> >>>Indians, stoking > >>chauvinistic feelings and > > > > >> >> >>>appealing to > >>Marathi > > > >> >> >>>pride.> > > > >>_______________________________________________> > > > > >> >> >>assam > > > >> >> >>>mailing list> > > > >> >> >>>[email protected]> > >> > > > >> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org> > > > >> >> > >_________________________________________________________________> > > > >> >Need > > > >> >> >>>to know the score, the latest news, or > > > >> >> >>>you > >need your Hotmail(R)-get your > > > >> >> >>>"fix".> >http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx> > > > >> >> >_______________________________________________> >assam > > > >> >> >>>mailing > > > >> >> >>>list> >[email protected]> > > > > >> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org> > > > > > >> >> >>>_______________________________________________> > > > >> >> >>>assam mailing list> [email protected]> > > > >> >> >>>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > >> >> > > > >>>_________________________________________________________________ > > > >> >> >>>Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word > > > >> >> >>>scramble challenge with star power. > > > >> >> >>> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan > > > >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ > > > >> >> > >>assam mailing list > > > >> >> >>>[email protected] > > > >> >> >>>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >>_______________________________________________ > > > >> >> >>assam mailing list > > > >> >> >>[email protected] > > > >> >> >>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >>Uttam Kumar Borthakur > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > > >> >> >>--------------------------------- > > > >> >> > > Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here > to > > > know > > > >> >> how. > > > >> >> >>_______________________________________________ > > > >> >> >>assam mailing list > > > >> >> >>[email protected] > > > >> >> >>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >_______________________________________________ > > > >> >> >assam mailing list > > > >> >> >[email protected] > > > >> >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >Uttam Kumar Borthakur > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> > > > > >> >> >--------------------------------- > > > >> >> > Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here to > > > know > > > >> how. > > > >> >> >_______________________________________________ > > > >> >> >assam mailing list > > > >> >> >[email protected] > > > >> >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> >> assam mailing list > > > >> >> [email protected] > > > >> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > >> >> > > > >> >_______________________________________________ > > > >> >assam mailing list > > > >> >[email protected] > > > >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> assam mailing list > > > >> [email protected] > > > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Uttam Kumar Borthakur > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > >> Chat on a cool, new interface. No download required. Click here. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > >> assam mailing list > > > >> [email protected] > > > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > >> > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >assam mailing list > > > >[email protected] > > > >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > assam mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > assam mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > _______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
