Yes saar , a plot near Vegas will be great from me ...
So are you saying that all those suicide bombers, the parliament attack, attack in the J &K assembly , the temple attack were not sponsored by our neighbors ?
You expect indian security forces to be just a mute spectator and react to each and every terrorist activity ? I am glad that you didn't write the civil service exam in India to become a IPS officer. Killing two terrorists for that matter whether it's fake or real is the right thing police has done, it's as good as what CIA did in Yemen. Indian public fully sympathies with the police action in Ansal plaza .
The chapter is closed now.
>From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Ram Dhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: ansal plaza incident
>Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:55:15 -0600
>
> >MEA has proof that they were Pak nationals....
>
>
>Of course! What could be more daminig than diaries with contact names in
>Pakistan and other telltale evidence, as were found on the 'terrorists'
>bodies, who have been evading police for months?
>
>
>If you believe that Ram, I have a choice acreage for sale in the Nevada
>deserts for a resort, for you :-). How gullible could we get?
>
>
>cm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 4:33 PM -0500 11/18/02, Ram Dhar wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>>Where are the friends and relatives of the victims?
> >
> >
> >
> >No one came fwd to bury the dead, they were handed over to WAQT board
> >(??) or whatever that Muslim org is ...they did the last rites .Govt of
> >India wanted to hand over the bodies to Pak but they refused. MEA has
> >proof that they were Pak nationals....that's however a different story and
> >Mr K Nayar will write on this next year marking the anniversary of Ansal
> >shooting!
> >
> >
> >
> >Having said that it will be a good idea actually to CHECK , RE - CHECK
> >and CHECK the FACTS again with our CM saar, his excellency Kuldip Nayar
> >and Bidwai where the friends and relatives of the victims are actually
> >from ?
> >
> >
> >
> >According to the sources -- Many of their friends and relatives are
> >enjoying a "stud muffins " healthy life in heaven with 72 virgin angels
> >, some of 'em are still awaiting orders from Mullahs to cross over to
> >India from Pakistan and kill the kafirs before they retire at their
> >'play boy mansion' in heavan .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: D Deka >To: Chan Mahanta , Alpana Sarangapani , AssamNet
> >>Subject: ansal plaza incident >Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 12:57:12 -0800
> >(PST) > > >Debating on these issues is healthy. Even if it doesn't
> >solve the real problem back home, it clears the conscience of the
> >participants in the debates. >I have a very simple question to the
> >sleuths of the net. Where are the friends and relatives of the victims?
> >Normally after such an incident, the journalists find the relatives,
> >friends or neighbors to interview. I have scanned the Indian newspapers
> >but haven't read any such interview. Were the victims local to Delhi? Or
> >is it simply that I missed the reports? >Dilip Deka > Chan Mahanta
> >wrote: > >Could Pakistan, Iraq, Iran or countries that are run by
> >dictators, boast of > >such freedom? > >Actually you can add many more:
> >China, Russia, Taiwan, Myanbmar -- what >have you. > >But a very low
> >threshold of a benchmark to weigh the largest democracy in >the world.
> >Besides, imagine the elation of the victims at what a fine >country India
> >is. > > > > > >It is heartening to know that in India people like
> >Nayar and others who can > >easily voice their opinions against the
> >establishment without being > >harrassed, do exist. > >Wake up A. What
> >do you call the following? > > >> The issue has got politicised with BJP
> >general secretary Arun > >> Jaitley accusing Nayar, me, and other
> >'so-called human rights > >> activists' of being 'the overground face of
> >the underground'. The > >> VHP wants us prosecuted as 'terrorist
> >accomplices'. Equally nasty > >> statements have come from other Sangh
> >Parivar figures. The VHP has > >> even demanded that the NHRC be renamed
> >National Terrorists' Rights > >> Commission. > >Those from the ruling
> >party and its supporters. Add to that what Assam >Netters branded them
> >recently fo that matter. And that what we know of. > > > > > > >This
> >is the only way when the government goes wrong it > >can be righted. >
> >>Let us not count the chickens before they are hatched. We know of
> >countless >such abominations that have been exposed, but NOTHING has ever
> >changed. > > >c-da > > > > >At 1:21 PM -0600 11/18/02, Alpana
> >Sarangapani wrote: > >It is heartening to know that in India people like
> >Nayar and others who can > >easily voice their opinions against the
> >establishment without being > >harrassed, do exist. This is the only way
> >when the government goes wrong it > >can be righted. > > > >Could
> >Pakistan, Iraq, Iran or countries that are run by dictators, boast of >
> >>such freedom? > >On a side note, Pakistan probably has more supporters
> >in India (including > >this net) than in Pakistan itself. > > > > >>
> >Praful Bidwai > >> > >> Encounters, Real and Fake > >> > >> It is not
> >usual for journalists, even those holding strong beliefs, > >> to become
> >public-interest litigants. So it is only with considerable > >>
> >deliberation that Kuldip Nayar and I decided last fortnight to > >>
> >approach the National Human Rights Commission with a complaint > >>
> >concerning what the police call their 'encounter' at Ansal Plaza, > >>
> >New Delhi's posh shopping mall, on the Diwali weekend, in which two > >>
> >'Pakistani terrorists' were gunned down. > >> > >> The last time I
> >initiated public interest litigation was 21 years > >> ago, when I moved
> >the Bombay high court in the pavement dwellers' > >> case. What impelled
> >me this time was the extraordinary nature of the > >> circumstances of
> >the Ansal Plaza 'encounter'. Both Mr Nayar --- one > >> of our most
> >respected journalists, with a distinguished record of > >> defending
> >human rights --- and I had been uneasy about the police > >> version of
> >the events. Then, on November 6, The Asian Age published > >> a story
> >quoting a Dr H Krishna who claimed to be an eyewitness to > >> the event.
> >He was emphatic that the 'terrorists' did not come to the > >> Plaza in a
> >Maruti car as alleged; they were brought by the police; > >> they were
> >unarmed, barely able to walk; the police killed them at > >> point-blank
> >range. > >> > >> Our complaint said that the salient facts, including Dr
> >Krishna's > >> account, are disturbing enough to warrant an impartial
> >inquiry. The > >> NHRC chairman, Justice J S Verma, passed an order
> >within minutes of > >> our meeting him. He issued notice to the Delhi
> >police commissioner > >> and 'anti-terrorism' Special Cell to respond to
> >the adverse > >> allegations, and directed them to provide 'immediate and
> >adequate > >> protection' to Dr Krishna. > >> > >> Since then, the
> >'encounter' controversy has become more heated --- > >> and murky. Doubts
> >have been cast on Dr Krishna's integrity and > >> character by raking up
> >old (apparently long-closed) cases filed by > >> estranged relations. But
> >the central issue is not his character, but > >> his role as a witness,
> >hinging on his presence at Ansal Plaza. The > >> Special Cell insists he
> >was not present in the Plaza basement. It > >> backs its stand by citing
> >'technical information' from a cellular > >> telephone company. The
> >police haven't disclosed the material facts. > >> Rather, they have been
> >leaking them selectively to 'sympathetic' > >> publications and
> >reporters. > >> > >> The issue has got politicised with BJP general
> >secretary Arun > >> Jaitley accusing Nayar, me, and other 'so-called
> >human rights > >> activists' of being 'the overground face of the
> >underground'. The > >> VHP wants us prosecuted as 'terrorist
> >accomplices'. Equally nasty > >> statements have come from other Sangh
> >Parivar figures. The VHP has > >> even demanded that the NHRC be renamed
> >National Terrorists' Rights > >> Commission. And now, Prime Minister
> >Vajpayee himself has > >> rationalised human rights violations by saying
> >(November 11) that > >> 'tough decisions' have to be taken while fighting
> >terrorism, > >> sometimes 'even infringing some of our freedoms and
> >abridging some > >> of our human rights temporarily... so that our future
> >generations > >> can live in peace and harmony.' > >> > >> This is a
> >remarkably frank admission of what the Indian State (like > >> some
> >others) practises. Clearly, the Parivar has made the > >> 'encounter' a
> >loyalty test: Patriotism requires that we support the > >> police; those
> >who don't are working hand-in-glove with terrorists. > >> The posture ---
> >that you are either with the VHP-BJP, or against the > >> Indian nation
> >--- is rooted in unspeakable arrogance. It equates > >> crass Hindutva
> >with genuine patriotism, based on India's > >> pluralist-secular
> >Constitution. But let's leave aside the BJP-VHP's > >> defamatory
> >statements. What matter now are the numerous > >> contradictions in the
> >'encounter' theory --- even if it is assumed > >> that Dr Krishna is an
> >unreliable witness. Consider the following: > >> > >> * Police
> >Commissioner R S Gupta said the police didn't have the > >> registration
> >number of the terrorists' car (The Times of India, > >> November 6).
> >Joint Commissioner Neeraj Kumar told The Indian Express > >> (November 4)
> >they had no details on 'the make or... number... [only] > >> a rough
> >description of the two men...' But hands-on Assistant > >> Commissioner
> >and 'encounter specialist' Rajbir Singh said: 'We had > >> ... the car
> >number" (ToI, November 4). The car was stolen in July, > >> but the FIR
> >for the theft was lodged two days after the 'encounter'. > >> > >> * The
> >police claimed the terrorists had two pistols, an AK-56 rifle > >> (in a
> >bag) and only 60 rounds of ammunition. If they wanted to wreak > >>
> >large-scale havoc in a prime shopping mall, why didn't they carry > >>
> >RDX, grenades, and more AK-56s? The two men were clever enough to > >>
> >enter India, travel to Maharashtra, Uttar Pradesh, and Kashmir in > >>
> >disguise, and concoct false identities, but so stupid as to leave > >>
> >their diaries in their pockets! > >> > >> * The police say the
> >terrorists fired 24 bullets, but they haven't > >> shown any spent
> >cartridges. No policeman suffered even a scratch. > >> Worse, contrary to
> >all professional and ethical norms, the police > >> handled the alleged
> >terrorists' weapons without gloves in the full > >> glare of television
> >cameras. As even a schoolchild knows, this is > >> not done if you want
> >to preserve fingerprints. > >> > >> * The police first claimed that the
> >encounter lasted 15 to 20 minutes > >> and involved 30 to 35 Special Cell
> >operatives using AK-56 guns. > >> Although these have small (30-round)
> >magazines, they fire at the > >> very rapid rate of 600 bullets a minute!
> >But instead of the huge > >> number of holes such firing should have left
> >in the basement walls, > >> there are only 13 such holes. Later, the
> >police disclosed that they > >> fired a total of 52 rounds, and the
> >'terrorists' another 24. But > >> they still cannot account for a good 41
> >of the 76! > >> > >> * The police delayed ordering autopsy on the two
> >bodies by over 72 > >> hours. They claimed there was a month's delay in
> >the December 13 > >> case too. In fact, that autopsy was done on December
> >17. They said > >> they referred the present matter to the home and
> >foreign ministries; > >> the clearance would take 20 days. Then, on
> >November 9, they hastily > >> ordered an autopsy. The only publicly
> >disclosed sentence in the > >> autopsy report gives an extra- medical
> >opinion --- that fatal > >> 'shock' and 'haemorrhage' were caused by
> >'firearms', and 'could have > >> been sustained in a police encounter'.
> >Doctors cannot determine > >> this. > >> > >> * The police claim that
> >19 eyewitnesses 'confirm' their account. But > >> none of those paraded
> >on television say they actually saw the > >> terrorists shooting. > >>
> >The police failed to summon independent ballistic experts. They > >>
> >claim they were tracking the terrorists for three months. But they > >>
> >didn't know their whereabouts even a few days before the shootout > >>
> >--- despite cell phone tracking! > >> > >> * Pictures show one dead man
> >clutching his pistol. Ballistic experts > >> and physiologists say that
> >under heavy fire, the victim's first > >> reaction 'is to release
> >whatever they are holding'. It is hard to > >> believe the weapon wasn't
> >planted after the event. > >> > >> The Delhi police have a lot of
> >answering to do. They claim, on the > >> strength of cell phone records,
> >that Dr Krishna only reached Ansal > >> Plaza two hours after the
> >encounter. According to an IIT Madras > >> telecom expert, cell phone
> >records can only give the approximate > >> location (with 1 to 1.5km) of
> >a user. More precise information > >> (within, say, 100 to 150 metres)
> >can only be obtained if calls are > >> tracked on the basis of advanced
> >authorisation --- impossible in Dr > >> Krishna's case, short of an
> >odious deal with the police. The fact > >> that the user's record shows
> >s/he accessed one cell (one of many > >> transceivers in a mobile
> >network) does not prove s/he was nearest > >> that cell. If one cell is
> >busy, the call is diverted to another. > >> > >> The murky nature of
> >these events has impressed itself firmly on the > >> public mind.
> >Thinking people everywhere are asking: was this > >> encounter calculated
> >to spread fear and insecurity, and thus > >> 'normalise' the use of
> >indiscriminate force? Why does the home > >> minister appear at the site
> >of each terrorist event? Is he trying to > >> create the impression that
> >he alone can defend citizens against > >> terrorism? Is there a deeper
> >game? Why should a policeman, even Mr > >> Rajbir Singh --- involved in
> >six of seven 'encounters' in 2000 --- > >> risk an 'encounter' without
> >the assurance of apex-level political > >> support? > >> > >> These
> >troublesome questions must not be ducked. Too many people are > >> being
> >killed after being designated 'terrorists'. In J&K, no fewer > >> than
> >1,296 have been shot dead this year. Andhra Pradesh alone > >> records
> >250 'encounters' a year. In Uttar Pradesh, there were 150 > >> custodial
> >deaths in 2000. In India, each year, over 2,000 habeas > >> corpus
> >petitions are filed, but largely ignored. This is > >> unacceptable.
> >Terrorism must be fought --- one might even say, on > >> war footing. But
> >only a lawless, barbaric, State fights it with > >> summary, brutal and
> >cruel methods --- which are the terrorist's own > >> evil hallmark. > >>
> >> >> Even wars have to be fought lawfully. Rules of warfare are > >>
> >incorporated in various Geneva Conventions and international > >>
> >treaties. The State cannot summarily extinguish human life. The > >>
> >police have no right whatever to do so. That is the function only of > >>
> >a court of law. A State that kills terrorists on mere suspicion > >>
> >itself practises terrorism. Many condone this on the assumption that > >>
> >a few 'excesses' are permissible because the real enemy is Pakistan. > >>
> >This view is dangerously wrong. Tomorrow's 'terrorist' --- the > >>
> >Special Cell's target --- could be you. Citizens are no more secure > >>
> >against State brutality than against militant terrorism. > >> > >> -- >
> >>> saurav > >> > > > > > >--------------------------------- >Do
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