>First, what has minority or majority group status to do with whether
>anyone ought to celebrate one or the other, or both, or none at all?
The main thrust here is not whether a particular individual or group has any obligation to celebrate or not celebrate. People can do as they wish. But my point here is basically that people can enjoy and mix with the American culture to their hearts' content. We all do. But this does not mean that we should discard what we have. This is not an "either or" situation, we can enjoy both.
>Why do *I*, or anyone else, should or have to follow what the rest the group may or may not >choose to do? If my 'group' decides to celebrate Janmastami, and I stay out, should I be >treated as a pariah?
You are right, nobody is bound by any rules to celebrate this or that or not that festival and nor should they be thrown out of any elite group. My point was: America is known as the salad bowl, where individual ethinic groups can maintain their cultural moorings and at same time accept American values. Again, it does not have to be one at the cost of the other.
I was referring to the fact that while accepting the new culture is healthy, neglecting one's own culture is not so healthy. I understand that is what America is all about - giving what you have while accepting what is out there. Or else, America itself would lose its color, the variety.
>Should such litmus tests be incorporated into society?
C'da, you must be kidding? If course, there are a whole sets of litmus tests. To be accepted and welcomed in any society (and even in our very own) we must pass these tests.
>If the west Indians or north Indians who have lived in Assam
>for generations but do not participate in any of the native
>celebrations or customs, it is their right to do so, isn't it? If
>they don't , we ought not to send out "goons" to teach them a
>lesson, should we?
Are there no south Indians? :)
No, you should not send the goons (see the para below though, you don't need to send them, sometimes they volunteer). That is a separate issue. We are not participating in thanksgiving, becoz of fear, it is just something that we enjoy - and that is the way it should be. Then the question arises, do we ahve to give up something of our own, in order to accept these 'local' festivals?
BTW, till the other day, in many places in Assam, if some non-Assamese were not able to give Bihu/Puja sanda, they were ostracized. Even a few years ago, an elderly non-Assamese man was unable to pay the sanda for Bihu and he was ridiculed and addressed suddenly as 'toi' from 'aapunul' in this manner: 'Puja-r sanda hole` dibo paro, bihu-r he` nuwaro'. Isn't that an extremely rude regional or racial remark? You can guess the man was a Bengali.
I've been condemning this kind of behavior that happened in Assam all this time and you are throwing just that on me now? :)
I hear this happens in Bengal too. Assamese and Bengalis don't usually take very kindly to your high standards of lassiez faire.
>If Joe Dash of Kingwood, TX ( originally from Mirza, Kamrup, Assam)
>decides to celebrate only Christmas and Thanksgiving in the USA, but
>does not do Puja and Bihu with equal gusto, should Jogiram Das be
>treated like a pariah in AANA conventions?
Heh! heh!. What about those in the Ozarks or the land where Missouri is flowing? I wouldn't know what AANA does, or wouldn't name anyone, but in general, I must say, it does look odd that we give up too much of our own culture even when we are not "asked" to do that - I mean even when no 'goons' were sent to us. :)
Glad to know that you had a good thanksgiving. BTW, I know you will be furious at me again, but may I dare ask: how did the Diwali dinner go, I'm sure it was as exciting as this one. :)
>To: "Alpana B. Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [Assam] THANKSGIVING DAY IN USA
>Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 08:54:11 -0600
>
>>"--- the spirit in which thanksgiving is celebrated today is one of
>>joy, cheer and goodwill toward all, and at the same time being
>>thankful for whatever we have.""
>
>
>
>*** I agree.
>
>
>
>>I would like to reiterate that when minority groups like us
>>celebrate >Thanksgiving/Christmas with great gusto and energy, we
>>should also celebrate >with the same frevor and energy our ethnic
>>occasions like Puja, Bihu and >Diwali. Somehow I think it is
>>important to maintain a balance.
>
>
>*** I have trouble with the implications of the above
>recommendations.
>
>
>First, what has minority or majority group status to do with whether
>anyone ought to celebrate one or the other, or both, or none at all?
>
>
>Why do *I*, or anyone else, should or have to follow what the rest
>the group may or may not choose to do? If my 'group' decides to
>celebrate Janmastami, and I stay out, should I be treated as a
>pariah? Of course I realize that it is the prerogative of the
>'group' to treat someone as an outcast. But would it be right?
>Should such litmus tests be incorporated into society?
>
>
>And why does there have to be a "balance"? I mean if *I* should
>decide to celebrate only the those occasions or events that came
>with my immigrant's baggage, and not adopt any of the new society I
>am attempting to be a part of, that ought to remain my choice,
>right? If the west Indians or north Indians who have lived in Assam
>for generations but do not participate in any of the native
>celebrations or customs, it is their right to do so, isn't it? If
>they don't , we ought not to send out "goons" to teach them a
>lesson, should we?
>
>And by extension, the complete opposite of it should be true too,
>shouldn't it?
>If Joe Dash of Kingwood, TX ( originally from Mirza, Kamrup, Assam)
>decides to celebrate only Christmas and Thanksgiving in the USA, but
>does not do Puja and Bihu with equal gusto, should Jogiram Das be
>treated like a pariah in AANA conventions?
>
>
>Just curious :-).
>
>
>
>
>
>At 11:16 PM -0600 11/27/04, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote:
>>You're right. Irrespective of what happened in history and what
>>lies or truth the internet may or may not have, (but the Pequot war
>>did happen in 1637-38 - a historical fact, and the today's
>>thanksgiving has roots in the pilgrim's thanksgiving of 1621), the
>>spirit in which thanksgiving is celebrated today is one of joy,
>>cheer and goodwill toward all, and at the same time being thankful
>>for whatever we have.
>>
>>I would like to reiterate that when minority groups like us
>>celebrate Thanksgiving/Christmas with great gusto and energy, we
>>should also celebrate with the same frevor and energy our ethnic
>>occasions like Puja, Bihu and Diwali. Somehow I think it is
>>important to maintain a balance.
>>
>>At my work place, I get best wishes for Diwali from the natives
>>here in the US, while many Indian Americans, either forget about it
>>or are simply gun shy. Their arguments against it may be that
>>Diwali and Puja are religious occasions (and I assume they are all
>>secular), but I can't stop thinking what do they think of Christmas
>>and even Thanksgiving (it is all about thanking the Almighty, after
>>all). :-)
>>
>>Anyway, like I said, I like the festivities but I realize the facts
>>that some people have been wronged. I try to keep the two issues
>>separate.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >From: Prasenjit Chetia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>Reply-To: Prasenjit Chetia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>Subject: Re: [Assam] THANKSGIVING DAY IN USA
>>>Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:48:33 -0500
>>>
>>>Yes , that is very true that thanksgiving celebrated today has a
>>>different color altogether. As you will find in all controversies
>>>there are always two or more parties trying to prove their
>>>findings.
>>>All researches done till now on this historical debate are not
>>>conclusive enough to prove an Indian/pilgrim brotherhood of
>>>thanksgiving. Though we don't stress upon any pilgrim connection
>>>to
>> >thanksgiving , if we take into account the way it is celebrated
>>now.
>>>The Church has played a very good role to mould the good ideas of
>>>thanksgiving what we see now. But the net is always a devil where
>>>you
>>>will find all sorts of truths which could better be lies. Isn't it
>>>?
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 22:35:47 -0600, Alpana B. Sarangapani
>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I think celebrating any occasion with a good spirit is the
>>>sign of a
>>> > cheerful mind, as long as one doesn't go ga-ga over
>>>Thanksgiving, Christmas
>>> > or whatever else and forget about Puja, Bihu and Diwali. :-)
>>> >
>>> > I like the festivity of all and enjoy it more so for the
>>>holidays that I
>>> > get. :-)
>>> >
>>> > I did not find any connection between the Pequot war
>>>(1637-1638) and the
>>> > Thanksgiving of 1621, celebrated by the pilgrims, after which
>>>Thanksgiving
>>> > is celebrated today.
>>> >
>>> > Of course, there was no continuity of it for a long while,
>>>until "October 3,
>>> > 1863" when "President Lincoln proclaimed the last Thursday in
>>>November as a
>>> > national day "of Thanksgiving and Praise to our beneficent
>>>Father." and it
>>> > was done "after a 40-year campaign of writing editorials and
>>>letters to
>>> > governors and presidents", by Sarah Josepha Hale.
>>> > http://www.new-life.net/thanks01.htm.
>>> >
>>> > It is also believed that thanksgiving was celebrated way
>>>before that by the
>>> > American Indians.
>>> >
>>> > Read a recent article on the history Thanksgiving from The New
>>>York Sun :
>>> > http://www.nysun.com/article/5326
>>> >
>>> > Some more web sites, if you want to read:
>>>http://rjohara.net/gen/wars/
>>> >
>>> > http://pilgrims.net/plymouth/thanksgiving.htm
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >From: umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> > >To: Prasenjit Chetia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Anjan K.
>>>Nath"
>>> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> > >CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > >Subject: Re: [Assam] THANKSGIVING DAY IN USA
>>> > >Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 21:58:54 +0000 (GMT)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >I am sorry I celebrated the event the way I did - not knowing
>>>that I should
>>> > have rather thanked my stars that I was not in USA (or then
>>>America) at the
>>> > time - while these pilgrims had just landed here.
>>> > >
>>> > >Umesh
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >---------------------------------
>>> > >Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win �10k
>>>with Yahoo!
>>> > Mail to make your dream a reality.
>>> > >_______________________________________________
>>> > >Assam mailing list
>>> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> > >http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/listinfo/assam
>>> > >
>>> > >Mailing list FAQ:
>>> > >http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/assam/assam-faq.html
>>> > >To unsubscribe or change options:
>>> > >http://pikespeak.uccs.edu/mailman/options/assam
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Prasenjit Chetia
>>>Atlanta, GA
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Assam mailing list
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>>
>>
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