C'da,
>*** I thought you all advocate pressure groups' activism to get things done in a democracy. Is >it not so good a thing after all :-)?
True, but surely you don't expect State Dept. visa denial rules be governed by pressure groups? Its one thing for the US overall policies be governed by such things, but quite another for the St. Dept to make a decision on the whims of pressure groups (pro or anti Modi).
>If I remember correctly, the Asian American Hotel Owners' Association, who asked Modi to >come grace their convention is a very very powerful lobby these days.
Thats exactly what I am getting at - these hotel wallas and other goups now seem hold some clout with whether or not XYZ in India gets a Visa. Imagine 2 powerful lobbies, one asking for a visa, and the other to revoke it and the State Dept.stands by, cluless!
>*** Why wouldn't they Ram? Have they too already convicted Modi? Have they too insulted >the Indian Constitution, as Modi claims?
Well!, my statement was way too mundane - whether Modi gets a visa or not is really no skin of our combined noses - no effect at all. Thats why I don't think its a problem (one way or the other) - after all he is just another 'Aaya Modi, Gaaya Modi'. :-)
One would expect The State Dept., in its own steam, deny (or given) him the visa. Its surprising to see them buckle.
--Ram
>From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Ram Sarangapani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu
>Subject: RE: [Assam] From the ToI/US denies visa to Modi
>Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:35:53 -0600
>
>Ram:
>
>
>>It is surprising that the State Dept. had to take advice from a
>>group (that is >obviously anti-Modi).
>
>
>*** I thought you all advocate pressure groups' activism to get
>things done in a democracy. Is it not so good a thing after all :-)?
>One might think pro-Modi groups are open to campaign as well, and
>one could be sure they did. If I remember correctly, the Asian
>American Hotel Owners' Association, who asked Modi to come grace
>their convention is a very very powerful lobby these days.
>
>>While most of us certainly don't have a problem in Modi being
>>denied the visa,
>
>*** Why wouldn't they Ram? Have they too already convicted Modi?
>Have they too insulted the Indian Constitution, as Modi claims?
>
>
>
>>Can't the US State Dept. make up its own decisions? If they think
>>that Modi was >the cause/instigator of the massacre of Muslims,
>>then THAT itself should be >enough to deny the visa - a massacre is
>>a massacre, and the truth is the truth.
>
>
>*** Except perhaps it ceases to be a truth if 'Liberals' and 'Muslim
>groups'
>support such truths?
>
>
>>Now, it doesn't look like the US is upholding some lofty
>>principles, but were >simply bowing down to pressures from activist
>>groups.
>
>*** Depends entirely on whether reasonable people would consider the
>action a good one or bad one. If it is something bad, perhaps the
>voters would show it in the next election? Or don't you have much
>faith in them :-)?
>
>
>>These groups may be right in this instance, but may be wrong in
>>other >instances.
>
>*** Are you suggesting that democracy could not be relied upon to do
>the right things, all of the time, unless it is Indian democracy
>:-)?
>
>
>> >Is this how visas are granted or denied?
>
>*** I could tell you anything about that. We all know that standard
>visas are granted or denied entirely on the whims of the Consul
>Generals holding jurisdiction. But Modi, having lost his visitor's
>visa earlier, was seeking a diplomatic visa.
>
>Incidentally, Modi is not the first 'dignitary' or scoundrel, as the
>case may be, that has been denied an US visa.
>
>c-da
>
>
>
>
>
>At 7:21 PM +0000 3/18/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>>While most of us certainly don't have a problem in Modi being
>>denied the visa, Reuters news wires had an additional item (the
>>rest were basically the same as the TOI release):
>>
>>**The American decision came after Muslim and liberal groups
>>campaigned in the United States against the planned visit and
>>petitioned the State Department to revoke his visa.
>>********* ........Reuters
>>
>>It is surprising that the State Dept. had to take advice from a
>>group (that is obviously anti-Modi).
>>
>>Can't the US State Dept. make up its own decisions? If they think
>>that Modi was the cause/instigator of the massacre of Muslims, then
>>THAT itself should be enough to deny the visa - a massacre is a
>>massacre, and the truth is the truth.
>>
>>Now, it doesn't look like the US is upholding some lofty
>>principles, but were simply bowing down to pressures from activist
>>groups. These groups may be right in this instance, but may be
>>wrong in other instances. Is this how visas are granted or denied?
>>
>>--Ram
>>
>> >From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >To: assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu
>> >Subject: [Assam] From the ToI/US denies visa to Modi
>> >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:13:16 -0600
>> >
>> >US denies visa to Modi, India lodges protest
>> >
>> >INDIATIMES NEWS NETWORK[ FRIDAY, MARCH 18, 2005 06:32:13 PM ]
>> >
>> >Sign into earnIndiatimes points
>> >
>> >NEW DELHI: India on Friday lodged a strong protest to the US for
>>its
>> >"uncalled for" decision to deny visa to Gujarat Chief Minister
>> >Narendra Modi and sought an "urgent reconsideration".
>> >
>> > The US had rejected Modi's application for a diplomatic visa,
>> >saying his proposed visit failed to meet the conditions for such
>>a
>> >permit.
>> >
>> > The consulate also revoked the tourist/business visa already
>> >granted to Modi, the US embassy spokesperson David Keneddy said,
>> >apparently for ignoring widespread anti-Muslim killings in his
>>state
>> >in 2002.
>> >
>> > "Mr Modi's existing tourist/business visa was revoked under
>> >section 212 (A) (2) (G) of the Immigration And Nationality Act,"
>> >Keneddy said.
>> >
>> > "This section makes any foreign government official who 'was
>> >responsible for or directly carried out, at any time,
>>particularly
>> >severe violations of religious freedom' ineligible for a visa."
>> >
>> > Hours after the US revoked Modi's tourist/business visa,
>>issued in
>> >1998, and denied him diplomatic visa to travel to that country
>>on
>> >Sunday, External Affairs Ministry summoned US Head of Mission
>>and
>> >conveyed its protest.
>> >
>> > US Deputy Chief of Mission Robert Blake, who met Foreign
>>Secretary
>> >Shyam Saran for 30 minutes, said that he had explained the
>>reasons
>> >for the decision and India had asked Washington to review it.
>> >
>> > External Affairs Ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna told
>>reporters
>> >that the US Embassy action was "uncalled for and displays lack
>>of
>> >courtesy and sensitivity towards a constitutionally-elected
>>chief
>> >minister of a state of India".
>> >
>> >The Ministry of External Affairs called the Head of the Mission
>>to
>> >lodge a strong protest against the denial of visa to Modi and
>> >requested "urgent reconsideration" of the decision, he said.
>> >
>> > Sarna said government "expressed its deep concern and regret
>>that
>> >the US embassy has denied a visa to Narendra Modi, honourable
>>Chief
>> >Minister of Gujarat to the US for an event organised by the
>> >Asian-American Hotel Owners' Association".
>> >
>> > The Spokesman said the visa had been requested by the Ministry
>> >through a Note Verbale to the US Embassy on February 28 this
>>year.
>> >
>> > Asked about the US response, the Spokesman said that Blake had
>> >promised to convey this to his authorities including the request
>>for
>> >reconsideration and to revert.
>> >
>> > Blake said Saran "expressed Government of India's concern and
>> >regret over the decision the US government took."
>> >
>> > Blake said he explained to Sarna that it was based on American
>> >law. Blake said the Foreign Secretary suggested that the US
>>should
>> >review the decision because of Government of India's concern.
>> >
>> > Noting that he would report it back to Washington, Blake
>>evaded a
>> >reply when asked whether the US would review the decision.
>> >
>> > Earlier in the day, External Affairs Minister K Natwar Singh
>>had
>> >said India would take up the issue with the US.
>> >
>> > Singh is also believed to have met Prime Minister Manmohan
>>Singh
>> >over the issue.
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
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