At 8:44 AM -0500 5/25/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
C'da,
>*** I was surprised to see you staying away from the philosophical
>discourse on this matter Ram. But if I remember correctly you used
>to be a card-carrying member of the 'Assamese-are-the-Lazy-Bums'
>club. But glad you are not an active one at the moment.
You remember wrong.I think all these posts going back and forth has
you completely confused :-)
*** You may be right Ram. Sometimes these things overlap.
Particularly the
charge of Assamese racial sloth as an excuse for Assamese
restiveness, implying
that all they are looking for is more HANDOUTS from the Ma-baap
in Delhi to have the same level of wealth as, say, Gujarat, or
Haryana, while in truth they are so poor only because they are so
lazy.
You may had read too much into whatever I have written, but I do not
label people as being lazy or ortherwise, and that too a card carrying
member?
*** That is remarkable in comparison with what we see from of our
other sophisticated compatriots in Assam Net, even after all the
enlightenment from soaking up wisdom from the likes of the BBC or the
NPR.
I must commend you on that :-).
I have my own pet theories about this. But one question does bother
me. Why is that only the Assamese are concerned about this label -
whether they are lazy or not? I don't know of any other ethinic group
which is trying to fight this label.
*** What other group do you know is being slapped with that or
similar slur? And what do you know about how content with or oblivious
of they are with such ?
I don't know that anyone other than myself has debated this point
in Assam Net. Obviously most are not concerned, one or the other. Or
it could be that they consider such labeling by a few somewhat
immature. But I know a few have told me, personally, in the past, that
they agree with me. And believe it or not, it includes people from
Houston :-).
I debate that primarily because I have noticed a co-relation
between that charge and an attempt to justify Assam's economic
conditions to that alibi, and an attempt to use that assertion as a
justification for continued , undue and undemocratic central controls
over Assam's resources, its governance, and thus its future.
Is it because they are more introspective, or is it because some of
them feel that they have to defend it? But I have heard this for so
many years,I feel its some kind of obsession.
*** My explanations are above. What is your explanation of why
you don't label people ? There may be a lesson in it for others,
coming from an unbiased and neutral person like you :-).
BTW: I did make a reference to this in my reply to Mridul, as to why
Assamese do not take menial jobs. I think, that they do not, because
there was never a need to do so before (it just wasn't worth it to
pull rickshaws for the small payoffs) If it becomes expedient, that
some Assamese will have pull rickshaws, they will do so. Of course,
there are other reasons.
--Ram
Your and Mridul's characterization of such labor as
rickshaw-pulling, or dirt-digging in brick-kilns, or shoe repairing or
what have you as menial jobs explains the whole thing.
The best you could come up with to promote dignity of labor, is to
call it 'menial', which belies a mind-set of people even like
Mridul and yourself. No amount of protestations of intent or language
challenged-ness will persuade anyone that you respect dignity
of labor and that you will be ready to pay for it fairly or
consider those who are involved in as equal human beings. It is
about respect. Believe it or not, we all need it to be a part
society.
My guess is that no amount of lecturing by NRAs or Assamese IT
whizzes in Delhi or B'lore or Hyderabad or Guwahati intellectuals will
change these societal attitudes, until the who's who in local society
can themselves demonstrate their belief in dignity of labor thru
examples, under ordinary circumstances. It would be different, if
it was a matter between food and starvation, or between homelessness
or shelter.
That would explain why youth in upper Assam MAY ( it is my
guess--I am no sociologist to assert that with confidence) not be so
interested in taking up rickshaw pulling, compared to those in lower
Assam, where the lot of the rural poor, I was told, is far worse than
in upper Assam by and large. I am unfamiliar with lower Assam rural
life, but someone I know very well, a relative, who travelled
extensively thruout Assam told me once, that what he saw in my
environs in Namti, was far better than most of Kamrup, Nalbari,
Barpeta etc.
c-da
On 5/24/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 6:21 PM -0500 5/24/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
> >C'da,
> >
> >>Too bad you don't know of these things, nor do all those
> >> hardworking, god's-gidft-to Kharkhowadom NRAs in Assam Net like Ram,
> >> Rajen etc. who are ready to brand their fellow men lazy at the
> >> slightest opportunity.
> >
> >heh!heh!heh! I may be God's gift to Kharkhowadom (kinda like that),
> >but I certainly did stay clear away from whether the Assamese are lazy
> >or hardworking discussions. That discussion was/is cornered by two
> >other stalwarts of Kharkhowadom. Guess who they are? :-):-)
> >
> >--Ram
>
> *** I was surprised to see you staying away from the philosophical
> discourse on this matter Ram. But if I remember correctly you used
> to be a card-carrying member of the 'Assamese-are-the-Lazy-Bums'
> club. But glad you are not an active one at the moment.
>
> c-da :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >On 5/24/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Hi Mridul:
> >>
> >> Here are some answers to your questions on why you do not see too
> >> many lazy Assamese growing two rice crops. This however is not all.
> >> I will be pleased to answer anything that raises questions in your
> >> mind. Too bad you don't know of these things, nor do all those
> >> hardworking, god's-gidft-to Kharkhowadom NRAs in Assam Net like Ram,
> >> Rajen etc. who are ready to brand their fellow men lazy at the
> >> slightest opportunity.
> >>
> >> c-da
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Status: U
> >> X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 09:42:52 -0600
> >> To: Saurav Pathak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >> Prafulla Barooah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Subject: Re: river interlink and AGP
> >> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu
> >>
> >> >this was the crucial point which you tried to slip in. punjab did
> >> >not lead the green revolution. you kept on insisting that punjab
> >> >produced an ms, whereas assam cannot. it seems you knew it all
> >> >along, and yet tried to mislead us.
> >>
> >>
> >> PRECISELY the point!
> >>
> >> Not to take anything away from the accomplishments of Punjab or the
> >> Punjabis, but let us look at how the path to their successes were paved.
> >> Where does the Bhakra-Nangal dam fit into the picture? How did it enable
> >> Punjab's green rev.
> >> by providing irrigation? Where does the reliable availability of power,
> >> electricity, fit into the picture? And what about fuel? How did affordable
> >> fuel change the picture of farming? What are the patterns of landownership
> >> enabling
> >> erstwhile 'zamindars' carve out new farming empires, while the landless
> >> destitutes remain invisible to the agro-economic experts?
> >>
> >> Milk production and nutrition are interlinked here as well.
> >>
> >> These are issues that are integral to understanding the needs of the rural
> >> Assamese farmers. As an UN expert ( from the sounds of his assertions)
> >> Barooah must have looked into these issues before he delivered his verdict.
> >> It will be nice to hear about these.
> >>
> >>
> >> Why I bring these out are:
> >>
> >> 1: The landownership patterns in Assam are quite different from that of
> >> Punjab. I don't know much anything about Punjab or N India. but am familiar
> >> with rural Assam's. The suibsistence farmers of Assam are required to FENCE
> >> off isolated plots of 'hwla', low lying rice planting areas, each season. A
> >> formidable task, taking a huge amount of time and effort. A 'jewra' needs
> >> replacing every two years, and requires repairing every season.
> >>
> >> 2: Cattle ownership, a fundamental need for surviaval --> milk. And not to
> >> discount dung either. During the main rice crop season, cattle have no
> >> place to graze but the 'saaporis', 'grezing' reserves, or reserve forests.
> > > Over the decades all of these have shrunken, putting added pressures of
> >> survival to the subsistence farmer.
> >>
> >> Now look at the demands of the hot-shot agri-experts who demand to know why
> >> the Assamese farmers do not attempt to grow a second crop in the winter:
> > > Where do their cattle go now, with the rice paddies fenced off for the
> >> second crop? A new fence, a place to take the cattle to feed, irrigation,
> >> fertilizer ( without which the second crop would be a flop) not to mention
> >> pesticides. Where do all these come from? After haaving to pay for all that
> >> what is the expected return on the excess rice crop ?
> >>
> >> Has Barooah priced fertilizer in rural Assam? And its availability? What is
> >> Indias source of phosshates(BTW India HAS little or none--bulk of it is
> >> imported) . And take a wild guess WHO gets the lions share of this
> >> precious,subsidized, imported nutrient? Punjab or Assam?
> >>
> >>
> >> 3: Irrigation for dry season is dependant on shallow wells, which is just
> >> becoming available. Most still cannot afford it. First cost wise, and then
> >> for maintenance. Fuel cost, reliable source of electricity. Where is the
> >> Bhakra dam (and funded by whom?) to subsidize the Assam farmers?
> >>
> >> 4: The ability to send the excess rice crop and/or farm produce to
> >>the market
> >> where a decent return could be obtained to justify the extra work: Where
> >> are the roads,the transportation infrastructure, the cold storage
> >> facilities , the fuel to run the trucks? Who is subsidizing the repair of
> >> roads and bridges after every rainy season in Assam?
> >>
> >>
> >> *** My question here is this: Are these relevant to weigh before we compare
> >> Punjab farmers with Assam farmers, and pass verdicts writing off the
> >> latter's woes as rooted in laziness? And if we did, would it not point to
> >> OUR intellectual lethargy and OUR own feeble-mindedness?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> cm
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At 8:08 AM -0500 2/9/03, Saurav Pathak wrote:
> >> >Prafulla Barooah said on AssamNet:
> >> >
> >> >+ Saurav:
> >> >+
> >> >+ The pros and cons of green revolution (GR) have been extensively talked
> >> >+ about and researched in the media and scientific literature. I
> >>believe the
> >> >+ only other comment on GR you made that I didnot address was that it was
> >> >+ funded by rockefeller foundation. This is known and is part of the GR
> >> >+ history - so there is no argument on this.
> >> >
> >> >this was the crucial point which you tried to slip in. punjab did
> >> >not lead the green revolution. you kept on insisting that punjab
> >> >produced an ms, whereas assam cannot. it seems you knew it all
> >> >along, and yet tried to mislead us.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >+ The term GR was coined by the
> >> >+ media, just like the White Revolution with milk in Gujarat
> >>(started by Dr.
> >> >+ Kurien) - but basically it was/is increased production using
> >>various means
> >> >+ - science, political will, environment, and people. So I have
> >>no argument
> >> >+ to offer because this is not a subjective topic - but based on facts of
> >> >+ recent history. So one can read the wealth of material already
> >> >available in
> >> >+ the libraries on these topics.
> >> >
> >> >well, when you want to make an argument on the internet, make one.
> >> >donot pass on the job to the library. there are enough material to
> >> >refute your arguments too.
> >> >
> >> >i have already made my observations on the green revolution. it is a
> >> >model that would be disastrous to assam. because of the investment
> >> >it requires, and the fact that it supports and promotes big farmers.
> >> >recall, assam consists mainly of susbsistence farmers. moreover,
> >> >the green revolution has itself given rise to a system of corrupt
> >> >distribution system. it is not in the interest of this
> >> >distribution system to see assam grow self-sufficient in food.
> >> >
> >> >if you have an argument against this, provide one, instead of
> >> >launching rhetorical angsts.
> >> >
> >> >i, otoh, do think the white revolution is relevant to assam.
> >> >cooperatives have a better chance of success in assam, imho. a
> >> >network of farming cooperatives can even address the flooding
> >> >problem, at the local level, without daming the brahmaputra, but by
> > > >controlling the tributaries. of course, one cannot replicate the
> >> >gujarat cooperative milk marketing federation in toto in assam.
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >saurav
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