I shoud have written ( in red)
What is good for Assam, should be good for India. But the
reverse is not necessarily so.
Really! So what this really means is that unless we support ULFA's
>position, we will be 'selling out' Assam.
Your confusion and consternation is a result of a mind-set that
to assert something FOR Assam, as the ULFA does, is, necessarily
anti-Indian or detrimental to India's interests.
>Negotiating is one thing, but totally capitulating to ULFA's demands
is quite another, specially when the main demand is seperation.
*** Again, this too is a self generated problem that you and
others are stuck in. Because, as we explored a few times in earlier
months and years, that a declared willingness to enter into
negotiations, both on the part of ULFA and GoI, is a tacit admission
of the fact that both are willing to climb down from their rigid
public stances and willingness to accept something less than their
previous demands.
Have you ever given any thought how a good many Assamese want to stay
as a part and parcel of India. They feel they are Indians first and
last, and ULFA's position is not tenable to them. I am sure they are a
bunch of fools in your eyes, but thats the way they feel.
*** I don't call people foolish or get otherwise abusive
with them for their personal desires and wishes. I am an unflinching
believer in personal freedoms, within the framework of a fair
and orderly social structure and enlightened mores.
The difference, however, lies in promoting or
supporting that society's legitimate rights or
undercutting and opposing it, willingly or by default, while at
the same time attempting to wear the halo of a well-wisher of that
society.That is the untenable part. One cannot have it both
ways.
*** And how does that relate to the issue in contention? Santanu
explained the concept very clearly and credibly and I connected the
dots for those who might have needed that extra help :-).
That is really your dim view. Actually, I am quite appalled that you
would tend to think that there is some Machiavelian plan of the Center
trying to make all of us into agents of some kind and over and above
that, we, the dumb folks have no clue about these plans. Yes, there is
>ghost behind every shadow!
*** I am not into conspiracy theories Ram. Nor do I give any
credence to RAW infiltration of the minds of people like yourselves.
But one does not have to.
The way you frame the questions is where the problem lies. It
leads you to the wrong answers, as I showed above. Your abhorrence of
the idea that independence for Assam is bad, solely out of a fear that
B'Desh will overrun Assam, led you to oppose everything the ULFA might
be involved with, even those that have benefited Assam , or could
benefit Assam. That is where the problem is. Once you shed
those blinders it becomes much easier on the mind :-).
Yes, many will agree with you here, except for the fact that maybe
there could have been some other way to achieve those bargaining
chips instead of blood & guts for 25 years.
*** Maybe there were. But rational people make those judgements
based upon precedence, past examples, not wishful thinking. What could
have been has to be judged in that light. And your speculation
therefore has no legs to stand on.
Had it not been for ULFA, maybe Assam would have been more developed &
prosperous than what it is today, and there would still be many
people/children living today who were needlessly killed by ULFA.
*** Same speculation without basis here. And that spin about
ULFA's killings
regrettable as it absolutely is, does not even come close to what
GoI and its proxy in Assam Govts. have done. But of course it is not
convenient for you to look at that :-).
My view (and I may be wrong here), many people just want to put all
>this ULFA, insurgency, army business all gone.
*** No, you are not wrong about the wish Ram. But it is
unfortunately more real than a bad dream, and thus cannot be rid of
like one.
They would like Assam
to have peace once and for all. To them, if thats what it takes to
bring ULFA to the table, then OK thats fine. To them that would be
small price to pay for peace. Basically many of them just gave in to
>one more demand.
*** What you are suggesting that the people of Assam, those you
refer to here, and in your mind as the majority, won't mind hurting
Assam's interests if that is what it takes to have peace. But what is
terribly wrong in this picture is that what would be actually
promoting Assam's interests you are painting as hurting it. This is
a result of your belief that what is good for Assam, of necessity, is
bad for India, whose interests you are devoted to promoting, except
not in so many words.
That is spinning out of control Ram :-)
In that, I think all Assamese should work toward that end (without
falling all over ourselves one way or the other - swinging toward the
>Center or toward ULFA).
*** I don't believe in this kind of 'neutrality' stuff Ram. I am
a partisan for Assam's interests. Not that it is bad for India,
because India's national good cannot be at the cost of one or more of
its components'. What is good for Assam, should be good for India.
But the reverse is not so.
c-da
At 7:27 PM -0500 6/1/05, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
C'da,
>But looking at the news-reports from Assam, and the tenor of the
discussions >and debates amongst us in Assam Net, it is apparent that
the emphases is on >how to weaken ULFA's bargaining position, and
thus Assam's, how to sell >Assam out, instead of giving it support
and promoting the efforts to get >negotiations going.
Really! So what this really means is that unless we support ULFA's
position, we will be 'selling out' Assam.
Negotiating is one thing, but totally capitulating to ULFA's demands
is quite another, specially when the main demand is seperation.
Have you ever given any thought how a good many Assamese want to stay
as a part and parcel of India. They feel they are Indians first and
last, and ULFA's position is not tenable to them. I am sure they are a
bunch of fools in your eyes, but thats the way they feel.
Are these people in your view anti-Assam (or 'selling out' Assam)
because they do not support ULFA's style and demands?
> I am quite appalled ,that we have actually been playing agents of the
> Center, proposing how the Center can hold Assam in servitude, replete
> with terms of slavery.
That is really your dim view. Actually, I am quite appalled that you
would tend to think that there is some Machiavelian plan of the Center
trying to make all of us into agents of some kind and over and above
that, we, the dumb folks have no clue about these plans. Yes, there is
ghost behind every shadow!
> the fact that ULFA's emergence was the single most important force that got the
> Center's attention to Assam's sense of alienation is forgotten by
> these people going about sporting intellectual blinders.
Yes, many will agree with you here, except for the fact that maybe
there could have been some other way to achieve those bargaining
chips instead of blood & guts for 25 years.
Before we all fall prostrate at ULFA's feet for their great deeds,
there is yet another way to look at this.
Had it not been for ULFA, maybe Assam would have been more developed &
prosperous than what it is today, and there would still be many
people/children living today who were needlessly killed by ULFA.
A thought about all the intellectuals who are willing to look into
ULFA's demand for the release of some of its cadre:
My view (and I may be wrong here), many people just want to put all
this ULFA, insurgency, army business all gone. They would like Assam
to have peace once and for all. To them, if thats what it takes to
bring ULFA to the table, then OK thats fine. To them that would be
small price to pay for peace. Basically many of them just gave in to
one more demand.
Having said all this, I think its time for both the Center and ULFA to
come to the negotiating table, and once and for all settle this issue.
In that, I think all Assamese should work toward that end (without
falling all over ourselves one way or the other - swinging toward the
Center or toward ULFA).
--Ram
On 6/1/05, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Very fine observations Santanu.
>
>
> >Though I am not sure the ULFA is actually interested in this, the
> >strongest >popular support for ULFA during an actual negotiation
> >will be on issues about >which there is relatively strong
> >convergence of opinion among the people of >Assam. The stronger the
> >public opinion, the greater the bargaining power of the >ULFA on
> >such issues. There is, therefore, an important role for building
> >public >opinion among the people of Assam on a core set of issues
> >for negotiation with >the government of India.
>
>
> *** Without a doubt. But looking at the news-reports from Assam, and
> the tenor of the discussions and debates amongst us in Assam Net, it
> is apparent that the emphases is on how to weaken ULFA's bargaining
> position, and thus Assam's, how to sell Assam out, instead of giving
> it support and promoting the efforts to get negotiations going. The
> more audible the popular sentiments are the higher the chances of
> Assam cutting a better deal, even though they might not have a lot of
> empathy with the bargainers' original goal of sovereignty.
>
> I am quite appalled ,that we have actually been playing agents of the
> Center, proposing how the Center can hold Assam in servitude, replete
> with terms of slavery.
>
> Regardless of whether one supports ULFA's positions, the fact that
> ULFA's emergence was the single most important force that got the
> Center's attention to Assam's sense of alienation is forgotten by
> these people going about sporting intellectual blinders.
>
>
>
> >Let me clarify, I am not suggesting that the people or their
> >intellectuals >formulate ULFA's agenda.
>
> *** Don't have to, but even thinking out loud with constructive ideas
> is a way to get the messages across.
>
> > >There is, therefore, an important role for building public opinion
> >among the people of Assam on a core set of issues for negotiation
> >with the government of India.
>
>
> *** Without a doubt.
>
> > And even though it smacks of collective opportunism, to not do so,
> >would (almost by definition) be a historical opportunity foregone.
>
>
> *** There is nothing wrong in such collective opportunism.
>
> c-da
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 11:57 AM -0500 6/1/05, Roy, Santanu wrote:
> >Suppose for a moment we set aside the question of our own views on
> >the ULFA, its demands and the history of its movement.
> >
> >Assume that at some point in time the representatives of the govt of
> >India and the ULFA actually meet across the table for negotiations -
> >just like the Naga or Bodo insurgency leaders did. You will agree
> >that in that event - what will be most important will be the actual
> >nitty gritty of the negotiation itself and that there is a
> >possibility that there will be a negotiated settlement. History
> >teaches us that such settlements often look very different from the
> >formal charters of the organizations.
> >
> >In fact, there is little doubt that the organization ULFA, its
> >historical perspective and its full set of demands are controversial
> >- there is no general consensus on them. In particular, a large
> >section (without trying to quantify how large) do not actually
> >sympathise with the ULFA or its demand for sovereignty (just as a
> >large section actually do).
> >
> >However, on specific issues that the ULFA initially stood for,
> >popular opinion is often quite close to ULFA's perspective. For
> >example, my own observation most people actually sympathise with the
> >fact that Assam is virtually in some sort of a colonial
> >socio-economic relationship with mainland India - whether or not
> >they think of it as a deliberate imposition or simply an outcome of
> >history to which the Assamese have contributed. Similarly, most
> >people actually believe that Assam's options of selling its natural
> >resources to the world market at fair prices are actually cut off.
> >That, de facto, Assam has had little access to its geographical
> >neighbors on the east through whom it could have bought its imports
> >at much cheaper price than it currently does from rest of India.
> >There are many others - including those related to preservation of
> >socio-cultural rights of indigenous people.
> >
> >Though I am not sure the ULFA is actually interested in this, the
> >strongest popular support for ULFA during an actual negotiation will
> >be on issues about which there is relatively strong convergence of
> >opinion among the people of Assam. The stronger the public opinion,
> >the greater the bargaining power of the ULFA on such issues. There
> >is, therefore, an important role for building public opinion among
> >the people of Assam on a core set of issues for negotiation with the
> >government of India.
> >
> >Let me clarify, I am not suggesting that the people or their
> >intellectuals formulate ULFA's agenda. The ULFA is a partisan
> >political organization with its own aims to which we may or may not
> >subscribe. But "the people at large" can nevertheless extract
> >important advantages from any negotiation by independently building
> >consensus on certain core demands that they may hope to see
> >reflected in any final settlement. And even though it smacks of
> >collective opportunism, to not do so, would (almost by definition)
> >be a historical opportunity foregone.
> >
> >Santanu.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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