Thanks David, I have a much better understanding now that you have
explained it.
I think we can agree that in this particular case (MOH) the law is
virtually un-inforcable
I am not saying that one should go out of ones way to circumvent this
ruling but I made no agreement with
the media company or the radio station (i did not sign up for this deal).
Now if the radio station pays a little more to have it's license include
the use of MOH devices that would make sence.
For a $98 donation to Jazz FM you can get a really cool hat or tea
shirt. I still have mine although it's getting a bit worn
I like to wear it at the REX or the Montreal Bistro, it shows solidarity
with the Jazz community in Toronto.
And my money goes to a good cause.
"We live in interesting times"
Henry Coleman
David Cook wrote:
Henry although I agree with some of your points you have to remember that
copyright permissions are always granted with limits. The radio
station paid
for the right to play the song on the radio to a prescribed audience
established by the Bureau of Broadcast Measurement (BBM) or as people
in the
industry call it "The Book". This rating establishes the expected
listenership and the means by which people listen (car, home, etc.).
MOH is a _new_audience_ that listens in a new way (captive on a phone
call
rather than passive in a car or other background music). This audience
was
not anticipated nor paid for because it is outside the scope of limits on
use the radio station signed up for.
This is exactly the same as the reason why I can buy a movie FOR HOME USE
for $20 at Walmart (you will notice the copyright LIMITATION in the
warning
screen at the beginning that we all FF over). I am not permitted to show
that movie at a public event without paying additional royalties because
that lies outside the prescribed intended use and audience I "signed
up" for
when I laid down my twenty dollars.
Remember, we never OWN the product and do not have the right to do
what we
want with it. We only purchase a TERM LICENSE for the product that
includes
prescribed and limited uses. This is pretty universal. You can change the
item from music to read "domain name", "credit card", "driver's license",
etc.
Did you know there are even hardware vendors that are adopting this
philosophy? The money exchanged is the same but they are giving you the
product for nothing and charging you an unlimited time license to use the
product. That way it remains their property and they can sue you if
you take
it apart and hack it in a way it was not intended to be used by the
manufacturer. Scarry huh?
Dave Cook
-----Original Message-----
From: Henry Coleman [VoIP-PBX.ca] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 2:37 PM
To: TAUG
Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Music libaray
Jim, I entirely agree but there are no royalties for broadcast or
streaming, the station pays the royalties every time they play a CD or
Record
The copyright (by definition) applies to copying the media. Any payment
to this organization would be completely useless who do they remit ?
my radio station doesn't want the money and the record companies have
already been paid. So my guess is they keep most of the money.
If I send them $98 so I can stream a radio station which may not even
be in this country, are they going to send my money back saying I don't
need to get their
permission? ....I don't think so.
I remember 30 odd years ago, the music industry want to ban the
selling of blank audio cassettes because people could record
music for free and play it back later !. Of course they lost that
battle, but the original audio cassette (designed by Phillips) was
developed adding Dolby and improving magnetic tape formulations to the
point where it was a good as the "reel to reel" tape recorder. Without
this development the HD in a computer could hold no more that a meg or
two of storage.
You use the word "should" get permission... who says ?
What legal or ethical rules am I breaking ?
Who is being hurt by my actions ?
Who is loosing revenue by my actions ?
Lets take a look behind the green curtain... ( "Wizard of Oz")
Take care ....Henry
Jim Van Meggelen wrote:
>It's not so much a matter of sending anyone money as knowing what you
may
be
>held liable for.
>
>I may not feel any moral obligation to send money for playing music on
hold,
>but that does not mean that I don't want to be well-informed on the
matter,
>so that I can correctly advise my customers.
>
>Leaving the "legal stuff" to "the people who know" does not sound like a
>solid strategy to me. By the time they get involved, it's often too
late.
>Ignorance of the law is not innocence.
>
>We can (and perhaps even should) be willing to debate our various
opinions
>on the matter, but the fact remains that you, your customers, and anyone
>else who wishes to play music on hold is expected by SOCAN, who
represents
>the copyright holders, to pay royalties.
>
>Whether we SHOULD or not is an entirely different matter, ripe for
debate.
>
>Jim.
>
>--
>Jim Van Meggelen
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/2177
>
>"A child is the ultimate startup, and I have three.
>This makes me rich."
> Guy Kawasaki
>--
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Henry Coleman [VoIP-PBX.ca] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: February 9, 2006 12:50 PM
>>To: TAUG
>>Subject: Re: [on-asterisk] Music libaray
>>
>>If you want to send money to some organization to avoid being
>>prosecuted for "Illegal use of an unregistered Music on
>>Hold" then go ahead.
>>But who is going to ?
>>If the station itself tells me that it's fine that's good
>>enough for me!
>>With a radio broadcast there is the expectation that it will
>>be freely available to the general public.
>>otherwise I would have to get a licence from the radio
>>station before I turned on my radio at the beach ( just in
>>case someone might overhear it ).
>>So lets get real...The advertisers pay the radio stations to
>>reach the
>>public. MOH does this( in a very small way).
>>Lets leave this legal stuff to the people who know.
>>
>>Henry
>>
>>John Lange wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>It should be pointed out that whether you are using a radio or or a
>>>streaming music source, NEITHER of these methods is "royalty
>>>
>>>
>>free". You
>>
>>
>>>must buy a license from SOCAN. The stations themselves may also
>>>prohibit this use.
>>>
>>>http://www.socan.ca/
>>>
>>>Of course this also applies to playing CDs.
>>>
>>>The last time I checked the licenses are cheap though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>
>>Henry L. Coleman
>>
>>www.voip-pbx.ca <http://www.voip-pbx.ca>
>>
>>1 866 415 5355
>>
>>"The Future Is Not What It Used To Be"
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Henry L. Coleman
www.voip-pbx.ca <http://www.voip-pbx.ca>
1 866 415 5355
"The Future Is Not What It Used To Be"
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Henry L. Coleman
www.voip-pbx.ca <http://www.voip-pbx.ca>
1 866 415 5355
"The Future Is Not What It Used To Be"
