Hi Paul
Your detailed explanation just arrived after my last e-mail. Please find my
answers:
"Should there be a msgstr[1] with a Turkish plural form?": No
As an example, we use phrase as "1 file, 2 file, 23 file" not "1 file, 2
files, 23 files"
So I can confirm the current plural form is correct and you can ignore
poedit warnings.
I'm usually testing my translations with my local Audacity instance and
there is no problem.
Thank you again
Kaya
23 Oca 2018 Sal, 21:36 tarihinde <
[email protected]> şunu yazdı:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Correcting the Plural-forms directive for Portuguese,
> Turkish, Ukrainian (Paul Licameli)
> 2. Re: I am merging your translation updates (Paul Licameli)
> 3. Re: Audacity-translation Digest, Vol 128, Issue 27 (Kaya Zeren)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 13:12:55 -0500
> From: Paul Licameli <[email protected]>
> To: audacity-translation <[email protected]>
> Subject: [Audacity-translation] Correcting the Plural-forms directive
> for Portuguese, Turkish, Ukrainian
> Message-ID:
> <
> cakug33ogsi24zkd5umstwk_lwfqemukbzewv1qrj1nvcvmd...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Attention, Bruno, Kaya, and Yuri,
>
> As I previously mentioned, poedit warns me that your .po files had the
> Plural-Forms directive in the header set unusually for your languages.
>
> There is a discussion of plural forms here:
> https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#Plural-forms
>
> For Portuguese, I think poedit just gives a false warning. The file has
> this directive:
> "Plural-Forms: nplurals=2; plural=(n > 1);\n"
>
> That is appropriate with a language like English with a distinction of one
> and more-than-one, and according to the gettext documentation, Portuguese
> is like that. (And pt_BR.po has the same directive too.)
>
> Turkish is also like that, but the file has:
> "Plural-Forms: nplurals=1; plural=0;\n"
>
> That line works for a language with no number distinctions like Chinese.
> The gettext documentation explains that Turkish does not change noun forms
> when they occur after a numeral, but there are some examples in
> audacity.pot that are not like that. For instance:
>
> #: src/PluginManager.cpp
> msgid "Enable this plug-in?"
> msgid_plural "Enable these plug-ins?"
> msgstr[0] "Bu uygulama ekleri etkinle?tirilsin mi?"
>
> Should there be a msgstr[1] with a Turkish plural form? The tr.po header
> must be edited so that msgmerge with audacity.pot will then make the
> msgstr[1] for you to fill in.
>
> Finally Ukrainian. gettext documentation says this:
>
> "Three forms, special cases for numbers ending in 1 and 2, 3, 4, except
> those ending in 1[1-4]
> The header entry would look like this:
>
> Plural-Forms: nplurals=3; \
> plural=n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : \
> n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2;
> Languages with this property include:
>
> Slavic family
> Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Serbian, Croatian"
>
> That expression means you map a number to a place in the msgstr[] table
> thus:
> return 0 for 1, 21, 31, ...
> return 1 for 2, 3, 4, 22, 23, 24, 32, 33, 34, ...
> return 2 for 5 through 20, 25 through 30, 35 through 40, ...
> (and similarly for each century)
>
> >From what I know of Russian, the first case is where you use nominative
> singular, the second genitive singular, the last, genitive plural. (Unless
> the noun phrase as a whole is in an oblique case, not nominative.)
>
> Is it correct that Ukrainian has identical rules? But uk.po has this
> instead:
>
> "Plural-Forms: nplurals=4; plural=n==1 ? 3 : n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : n"
>
> In other words:
> return 0 for 21, 31, ...
> return 1 in no case
> return 2 for 2
> return 3 for 1 and 3
> For all other numbers, return out-of-bounds! This can't be right.
>
> For all these languages, tell me you think your Plural-Forms is really
> correct, despite the references above, and I will ignore the warning from
> poedit. Or else, you still have opportunity to fix it. There are not very
> many uses yet of msgid_plural -- only 6. But I hope to make more
> consistent use of it in future. There may be places where it should be
> used but isn't.
>
> Or if it's only the one header line that needs correction, I can fix that
> by hand.
>
> PRL
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 13:16:28 -0500
> From: Paul Licameli <[email protected]>
> To: audacity-translation <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] I am merging your translation
> updates
> Message-ID:
> <
> cakug33p-flzgtpda8rprub24q5pqlqj8rsacplvabypsuwk...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:48 PM, Yuri Chornoivan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ????????, 23 ????? 2018 ?. 19:10:57 EET Paul Licameli ????????:
> > > Some of these are still missing a few entries from the latest version
> of
> > > Audacity.pot. Some give me a warning when I open them in poedit that
> the
> > > Plural-Forms header line is unusual for that language.
> > > Ukrainian (plurals)
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > If it is not hard to do, please use the file from PR. Please do not use
> the
> > application like poEdit to test Ukrainian translation.
> >
> > poEdit, Qt Linguist, Transifex, Pootle and some other tools have
> hard-coded
> > plural forms for each language. These forms are in accordance with CLDR
> > (official Unicode) but are not always suitable for software translations
> > (if
> > you need it, I can explain everything thoroughly with examples from
> gettext
> > man).
> >
> > The plural forms from the file attached (the same as in PR) are correct
> > (just
> > one additional case for n==1). This can be verified by "msgfmt -vc" from
> > gettext utils.
> >
> > If you still do not want to use this file, please use the Transifex
> > flavour...
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your work.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Yuri
> >
>
> Yuri,
>
> Our messages crossed. See my other recent email about plurals.
>
> I did download your pull request and will soon push that change to Github,
> rebased onto more recent HEAD.
>
> The existing Plural-Forms in the header for uk.po (both the PR and your
> last attachment, and also in the 2.2.1 version of it) are all the same, and
> as I explained in the other email, all incorrect because they map some
> numbers outside the range of 0, ... 3.
>
> What was the source of that directive? Something must be done to fix it.
>
> PRL
>
>
>
> > -----------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 18:36:25 +0000
> From: Kaya Zeren <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] Audacity-translation Digest, Vol
> 128, Issue 27
> Message-ID:
> <
> caf-gkgdjqtahdvr34w_nxu2gn_y3cqo6dtqq6fuqg6_g_1m...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Sorry I just saw the messages and couldn't get if I change something.
>
> Plural form for Turkish is:
> ?nplurals=1; plural=0;
>
> We use singular phrases for plural in Turkish.
>
> Thanks
> Kaya
>
> 23 Oca 2018 Sal, 20:48 tarihinde <
> [email protected]> ?unu yazd?:
>
> > Send Audacity-translation mailing list submissions to
> > [email protected]
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-translation
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > [email protected]
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > [email protected]
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Audacity-translation digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: I am merging your translation updates (Paul Licameli)
> > 2. Re: I am merging your translation updates (Yuri Chornoivan)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 12:10:57 -0500
> > From: Paul Licameli <[email protected]>
> > To: audacity-translation <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] I am merging your translation
> > updates
> > Message-ID:
> > <
> > cakug33p6xmdjg9ox_6dqraeu8do0npz_hnc-vy+j1nxh6yx...@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Update: I have seen the small updates for Simplified Chinese, Danish,
> and
> > Turkish since I wrote this. That brings all twelve languages in the
> first
> > list below 100% up to date. Thanks for the updates.
> >
> > I took the Turkish from Transifex. I see it is done by the same party
> who
> > also posts to this mailing list.
> >
> > The Turkish, however, still causes a warning when I open it with poedit,
> > that plural forms are not specified in the usual way for that language.
> >
> > PRL
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 8:08 PM, Paul Licameli <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I am now looking at updated .po files for Audacity version 2.2.2.
> > >
> > > I am aware of updates for these -- please alert me if I missed any.
> > >
> > > Some of these are still missing a few entries from the latest version
> of
> > > Audacity.pot. Some give me a warning when I open them in poedit that
> the
> > > Plural-Forms header line is unusual for that language.
> > >
> > > Basque
> > > Chinese (Simplified) (missing 34)
> > > Danish (missing 10)
> > > French
> > > German
> > > Greek
> > > Korean
> > > Portuguese (European) (plurals)
> > > Spanish
> > > Swedish
> > > Turkish (10 missing; plurals)
> > > Ukrainian (plurals)
> > >
> > > I will soon put all these updates into GitHub, as complete or nearly
> so.
> > > If you still want to make small corrections, it is not too late.
> > >
> > > See this reference for how to correct the Plural-Forms, and what might
> be
> > > correct for your language: https://www.gnu.org/software/
> > > gettext/manual/gettext.html#Plural-forms
> > >
> > > Once you do that, try msgmerge xx.po audacity.pot and see that you get
> > > lines like
> > >
> > > msgstr[0]
> > > msgstr[1]
> > >
> > > etc. to be filled in.
> > >
> > > Finally, there were some other languages that were brought up to date
> for
> > > version 2.2.1. I hope those translators are reading this and can keep
> > > these others up-to-date for 2.2.2 too:
> > >
> > > Arabic
> > > Basque (Spain)
> > > Chinese (Traditional)
> > > Czech
> > > Dutch
> > > Hindi
> > > Italian
> > > Polish
> > > Portuguese (Brazilian)
> > > Slovenian
> > >
> > > And languages not on this list are surely welcome too.
> > >
> > > PRL
> > >
> > >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 19:48:41 +0200
> > From: Yuri Chornoivan <[email protected]>
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] I am merging your translation
> > updates
> > Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > ????????, 23 ????? 2018 ?. 19:10:57 EET Paul Licameli ????????:
> > > Some of these are still missing a few entries from the latest version
> of
> > > Audacity.pot. Some give me a warning when I open them in poedit that
> the
> > > Plural-Forms header line is unusual for that language.
> > > Ukrainian (plurals)
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > If it is not hard to do, please use the file from PR. Please do not use
> the
> > application like poEdit to test Ukrainian translation.
> >
> > poEdit, Qt Linguist, Transifex, Pootle and some other tools have
> hard-coded
> > plural forms for each language. These forms are in accordance with CLDR
> > (official Unicode) but are not always suitable for software translations
> > (if
> > you need it, I can explain everything thoroughly with examples from
> gettext
> > man).
> >
> > The plural forms from the file attached (the same as in PR) are correct
> > (just
> > one additional case for n==1). This can be verified by "msgfmt -vc" from
> > gettext utils.
> >
> > If you still do not want to use this file, please use the Transifex
> > flavour...
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your work.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Yuri
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > Name: uk.po
> > Type: text/x-gettext-translation
> > Size: 489676 bytes
> > Desc: not available
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
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> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-translation
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of Audacity-translation Digest, Vol 128, Issue 27
> > *****************************************************
> >
>
>
> --
> Sayg?lar?mla,
> Kaya Zeren
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--
Saygılarımla,
Kaya Zeren
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