On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 2:01 PM, Kaya Zeren <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Paul
>
> Your detailed explanation just arrived after my last e-mail. Please find
> my answers:
>
> "Should there be a msgstr[1] with a Turkish plural form?": No
>
> As an example, we use phrase as "1 file, 2 file, 23 file" not "1 file, 2
> files, 23 files"
>
> So I can confirm the current plural form is correct and you can ignore
> poedit warnings.
> I'm usually testing my translations with my local Audacity instance and
> there is no problem.
>
> Thank you again
> Kaya
>
Are you certain of that? I repeat again this example. It is not always
the case, that the singular/plural string pair to be translated, has a %d
in it. In such cases without numerals, according to my tiny knowledge of
Turkish, are there not plural suffixes in -lar and -ler ?
If so, we need Plural-Forms as in English to make a disctinction for these
cases. Where there are numerals, and no Turkish distinctions, you would
just duplicate the Turkish translation.
#: src/PluginManager.cpp
msgid "Enable this plug-in?"
msgid_plural "Enable these plug-ins?"
msgstr[0] "Bu uygulama ekleri etkinle?tirilsin mi?"
PRL
>
> 23 Oca 2018 Sal, 21:36 tarihinde <audacity-translation-request@
> lists.sourceforge.net> şunu yazdı:
>
>> Send Audacity-translation mailing list submissions to
>> [email protected]
>>
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>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Correcting the Plural-forms directive for Portuguese,
>> Turkish, Ukrainian (Paul Licameli)
>> 2. Re: I am merging your translation updates (Paul Licameli)
>> 3. Re: Audacity-translation Digest, Vol 128, Issue 27 (Kaya Zeren)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 13:12:55 -0500
>> From: Paul Licameli <[email protected]>
>> To: audacity-translation <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [Audacity-translation] Correcting the Plural-forms directive
>> for Portuguese, Turkish, Ukrainian
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAKUg33ogsi24ZKD5UMStWK_LwfQemUkbZewv1qrj1NvcVMdhRg@
>> mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Attention, Bruno, Kaya, and Yuri,
>>
>> As I previously mentioned, poedit warns me that your .po files had the
>> Plural-Forms directive in the header set unusually for your languages.
>>
>> There is a discussion of plural forms here:
>> https://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/gettext.html#Plural-forms
>>
>> For Portuguese, I think poedit just gives a false warning. The file has
>> this directive:
>> "Plural-Forms: nplurals=2; plural=(n > 1);\n"
>>
>> That is appropriate with a language like English with a distinction of one
>> and more-than-one, and according to the gettext documentation, Portuguese
>> is like that. (And pt_BR.po has the same directive too.)
>>
>> Turkish is also like that, but the file has:
>> "Plural-Forms: nplurals=1; plural=0;\n"
>>
>> That line works for a language with no number distinctions like Chinese.
>> The gettext documentation explains that Turkish does not change noun forms
>> when they occur after a numeral, but there are some examples in
>> audacity.pot that are not like that. For instance:
>>
>> #: src/PluginManager.cpp
>> msgid "Enable this plug-in?"
>> msgid_plural "Enable these plug-ins?"
>> msgstr[0] "Bu uygulama ekleri etkinle?tirilsin mi?"
>>
>> Should there be a msgstr[1] with a Turkish plural form? The tr.po header
>> must be edited so that msgmerge with audacity.pot will then make the
>> msgstr[1] for you to fill in.
>>
>> Finally Ukrainian. gettext documentation says this:
>>
>> "Three forms, special cases for numbers ending in 1 and 2, 3, 4, except
>> those ending in 1[1-4]
>> The header entry would look like this:
>>
>> Plural-Forms: nplurals=3; \
>> plural=n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : \
>> n%10>=2 && n%10<=4 && (n%100<10 || n%100>=20) ? 1 : 2;
>> Languages with this property include:
>>
>> Slavic family
>> Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Serbian, Croatian"
>>
>> That expression means you map a number to a place in the msgstr[] table
>> thus:
>> return 0 for 1, 21, 31, ...
>> return 1 for 2, 3, 4, 22, 23, 24, 32, 33, 34, ...
>> return 2 for 5 through 20, 25 through 30, 35 through 40, ...
>> (and similarly for each century)
>>
>> >From what I know of Russian, the first case is where you use nominative
>> singular, the second genitive singular, the last, genitive plural.
>> (Unless
>> the noun phrase as a whole is in an oblique case, not nominative.)
>>
>> Is it correct that Ukrainian has identical rules? But uk.po has this
>> instead:
>>
>> "Plural-Forms: nplurals=4; plural=n==1 ? 3 : n%10==1 && n%100!=11 ? 0 : n"
>>
>> In other words:
>> return 0 for 21, 31, ...
>> return 1 in no case
>> return 2 for 2
>> return 3 for 1 and 3
>> For all other numbers, return out-of-bounds! This can't be right.
>>
>> For all these languages, tell me you think your Plural-Forms is really
>> correct, despite the references above, and I will ignore the warning from
>> poedit. Or else, you still have opportunity to fix it. There are not
>> very
>> many uses yet of msgid_plural -- only 6. But I hope to make more
>> consistent use of it in future. There may be places where it should be
>> used but isn't.
>>
>> Or if it's only the one header line that needs correction, I can fix that
>> by hand.
>>
>> PRL
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 13:16:28 -0500
>> From: Paul Licameli <[email protected]>
>> To: audacity-translation <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] I am merging your translation
>> updates
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAKUg33p-fLzGTPDA8rPruB24Q5pQLQj8RSAcpL
>> [email protected]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:48 PM, Yuri Chornoivan <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > ????????, 23 ????? 2018 ?. 19:10:57 EET Paul Licameli ????????:
>> > > Some of these are still missing a few entries from the latest version
>> of
>> > > Audacity.pot. Some give me a warning when I open them in poedit that
>> the
>> > > Plural-Forms header line is unusual for that language.
>> > > Ukrainian (plurals)
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > If it is not hard to do, please use the file from PR. Please do not use
>> the
>> > application like poEdit to test Ukrainian translation.
>> >
>> > poEdit, Qt Linguist, Transifex, Pootle and some other tools have
>> hard-coded
>> > plural forms for each language. These forms are in accordance with CLDR
>> > (official Unicode) but are not always suitable for software translations
>> > (if
>> > you need it, I can explain everything thoroughly with examples from
>> gettext
>> > man).
>> >
>> > The plural forms from the file attached (the same as in PR) are correct
>> > (just
>> > one additional case for n==1). This can be verified by "msgfmt -vc" from
>> > gettext utils.
>> >
>> > If you still do not want to use this file, please use the Transifex
>> > flavour...
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance for your work.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Yuri
>> >
>>
>> Yuri,
>>
>> Our messages crossed. See my other recent email about plurals.
>>
>> I did download your pull request and will soon push that change to Github,
>> rebased onto more recent HEAD.
>>
>> The existing Plural-Forms in the header for uk.po (both the PR and your
>> last attachment, and also in the 2.2.1 version of it) are all the same,
>> and
>> as I explained in the other email, all incorrect because they map some
>> numbers outside the range of 0, ... 3.
>>
>> What was the source of that directive? Something must be done to fix it.
>>
>> PRL
>>
>>
>>
>> > -----------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Audacity-translation mailing list
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>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-translation
>> >
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 18:36:25 +0000
>> From: Kaya Zeren <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] Audacity-translation Digest, Vol
>> 128, Issue 27
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAF-GkgDJqTAhDvR34w_Nxu2gN_y3cqO6dTqq6Fuqg6_G_1MNdQ@mail.
>> gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Sorry I just saw the messages and couldn't get if I change something.
>>
>> Plural form for Turkish is:
>> ?nplurals=1; plural=0;
>>
>> We use singular phrases for plural in Turkish.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Kaya
>>
>> 23 Oca 2018 Sal, 20:48 tarihinde <
>> [email protected]> ?unu yazd?:
>>
>> > Send Audacity-translation mailing list submissions to
>> > [email protected]
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-
>> translation
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > [email protected]
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > [email protected]
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of Audacity-translation digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. Re: I am merging your translation updates (Paul Licameli)
>> > 2. Re: I am merging your translation updates (Yuri Chornoivan)
>> >
>> >
>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 12:10:57 -0500
>> > From: Paul Licameli <[email protected]>
>> > To: audacity-translation <[email protected]>
>> > Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] I am merging your translation
>> > updates
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <
>> > cakug33p6xmdjg9ox_6dqraeu8do0npz_hnc-vy+j1nxh6yx...@mail.gmail.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >
>> > Update: I have seen the small updates for Simplified Chinese, Danish,
>> and
>> > Turkish since I wrote this. That brings all twelve languages in the
>> first
>> > list below 100% up to date. Thanks for the updates.
>> >
>> > I took the Turkish from Transifex. I see it is done by the same party
>> who
>> > also posts to this mailing list.
>> >
>> > The Turkish, however, still causes a warning when I open it with poedit,
>> > that plural forms are not specified in the usual way for that language.
>> >
>> > PRL
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 8:08 PM, Paul Licameli <[email protected]
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > I am now looking at updated .po files for Audacity version 2.2.2.
>> > >
>> > > I am aware of updates for these -- please alert me if I missed any.
>> > >
>> > > Some of these are still missing a few entries from the latest version
>> of
>> > > Audacity.pot. Some give me a warning when I open them in poedit that
>> the
>> > > Plural-Forms header line is unusual for that language.
>> > >
>> > > Basque
>> > > Chinese (Simplified) (missing 34)
>> > > Danish (missing 10)
>> > > French
>> > > German
>> > > Greek
>> > > Korean
>> > > Portuguese (European) (plurals)
>> > > Spanish
>> > > Swedish
>> > > Turkish (10 missing; plurals)
>> > > Ukrainian (plurals)
>> > >
>> > > I will soon put all these updates into GitHub, as complete or nearly
>> so.
>> > > If you still want to make small corrections, it is not too late.
>> > >
>> > > See this reference for how to correct the Plural-Forms, and what
>> might be
>> > > correct for your language: https://www.gnu.org/software/
>> > > gettext/manual/gettext.html#Plural-forms
>> > >
>> > > Once you do that, try msgmerge xx.po audacity.pot and see that you get
>> > > lines like
>> > >
>> > > msgstr[0]
>> > > msgstr[1]
>> > >
>> > > etc. to be filled in.
>> > >
>> > > Finally, there were some other languages that were brought up to date
>> for
>> > > version 2.2.1. I hope those translators are reading this and can keep
>> > > these others up-to-date for 2.2.2 too:
>> > >
>> > > Arabic
>> > > Basque (Spain)
>> > > Chinese (Traditional)
>> > > Czech
>> > > Dutch
>> > > Hindi
>> > > Italian
>> > > Polish
>> > > Portuguese (Brazilian)
>> > > Slovenian
>> > >
>> > > And languages not on this list are surely welcome too.
>> > >
>> > > PRL
>> > >
>> > >
>> > -------------- next part --------------
>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 19:48:41 +0200
>> > From: Yuri Chornoivan <[email protected]>
>> > To: [email protected]
>> > Subject: Re: [Audacity-translation] I am merging your translation
>> > updates
>> > Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >
>> > ????????, 23 ????? 2018 ?. 19:10:57 EET Paul Licameli ????????:
>> > > Some of these are still missing a few entries from the latest version
>> of
>> > > Audacity.pot. Some give me a warning when I open them in poedit that
>> the
>> > > Plural-Forms header line is unusual for that language.
>> > > Ukrainian (plurals)
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > If it is not hard to do, please use the file from PR. Please do not use
>> the
>> > application like poEdit to test Ukrainian translation.
>> >
>> > poEdit, Qt Linguist, Transifex, Pootle and some other tools have
>> hard-coded
>> > plural forms for each language. These forms are in accordance with CLDR
>> > (official Unicode) but are not always suitable for software translations
>> > (if
>> > you need it, I can explain everything thoroughly with examples from
>> gettext
>> > man).
>> >
>> > The plural forms from the file attached (the same as in PR) are correct
>> > (just
>> > one additional case for n==1). This can be verified by "msgfmt -vc" from
>> > gettext utils.
>> >
>> > If you still do not want to use this file, please use the Transifex
>> > flavour...
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance for your work.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Yuri
>> > -------------- next part --------------
>> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> > Name: uk.po
>> > Type: text/x-gettext-translation
>> > Size: 489676 bytes
>> > Desc: not available
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------------
>> > Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> > engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Subject: Digest Footer
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Audacity-translation mailing list
>> > [email protected]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/audacity-translation
>> >
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > End of Audacity-translation Digest, Vol 128, Issue 27
>> > *****************************************************
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sayg?lar?mla,
>> Kaya Zeren
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>> Subject: Digest Footer
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>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> --
> Saygılarımla,
> Kaya Zeren
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
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> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
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