Re: Q9 Has a New Home
Gene Warner wrote
I also find it interesting that among all the screen readers available, only the users of NVDA have this attitude. You don't see users of JAWS, Window Eyes, System Access, or whatever speaking scornfully about other screen readers, the only people that speak scornfully about other screen readers are NVDA users. I wonder why.
Well Gene, the reason I think explains it all is that we nvda users know nvda is free. And we all know all the other common screen readers aren't. And the bashers bash the other screen readers for just cause. Now I'm saying this as an avid nvda user, supporter, downloader, potential addon developer and donator who has a *slight* grudge against the high prices of jaws and window eyes, that some of the avid bashers are taking it a bit too far. I too make jokes about those screenreaders but avoid doing it in a way that wishes ill will on any of the people who make
them. Yeah let's face it all those tts skits about Jaws vs nvda and let's destroy this and that can sometimes even get a laugh out of the screenreader companies, but making fun of them with names all the time isn't gonna do anything but make them laugh at the bashers when they pass on criticisms.
Jayde wrote
So, first of all, before I go anywhere, let's stuff all the "flaws" and "hard gin" crap, okay? it's stupid, it's immature, it's juvenile. Stuff it.
Exactly. Hell, even I do some of that stuff sometimes, tts skits about it, parodies of existing stuff and such, but mostly if it goes a little over the top I do it privately or if I do share it publicly, I would definitely put a disclaimer that nothing personal or no harm is deliberately meant by the creation of this or that. Actual wishing ill will, incessant use of names like greedom and Hard-gin are
gonna do nothing but make them not take us seriously. Just as bryan said
"Hate Mail", invective and aggression are completely counterproductive and do not make anyone interested in listening to your point of view. We only respect the views of people who advocate their point in a civil manner.
He is absolutely right. As sour as this situation with q9 is for anyone who doesn't own jaws or leasey, think for a minute that maybe, just maybe, if you were to raise the point that q9 should be also distributed as a stand-alone product in a civil manner, that maybe, he might actually consider going through with it? Let's just assume that I'm him and I'm the one receiving all this. It may be set and done for now, but maybe if I got a message like:
Hi Brian, I'm writing to you because I heard that q9 is now being sold only through Leasey. This is a great exclusive for people who already have Leasey and an incentive for people who have Jaws to buy Leasey. You also pointed out that people who wanted to buy q9 stand-alone should've done so during the 6 years it was around as stand-alone. That seems completely valid and fair to us and everyone who had a chance at it, but not so much for new members. This community is constantly growing so while today you can validly state that people should've done it before, but tomorrow, or the day after that, that argument may start to become invalid as more newcomers to audiogames hit the sceen. You state that this will give a whole new audience introduction to games automatically. Yes, that applies only to the minority of Jaws users, though. People using other screen readers are out of luck. Of course the argument can be made that jaws can be gotten for free in most countries because of state agencies, but that doesn't hold true for less developed countries that are signif icantly struggling financially. therefor, could Leasey either be made for nvda, or could the games module be a separate purchasable application for those people who can't get Leasey? You also state that if you were to develop Leasey for nvda, it would have to be released as open source. Yes and no. Nvda addons due to license and by their very nature are open sourced. Even commercial ones like vocalizer, have some visible code. However, there are two particular programs that interact with nvda that used to be commercial, but are now free, called v-turbo and v-mouse, together v-apps, that are closed source, yet still interact with nvda without the need for open source. The company that develops these is called Vict Consultancy. They make products designed to improve assistive technology and provide training for individuals/entities. While the other problem with making Leasey for nvda iss that it would be a complete rewrite, and having to maintain two versions of it, but usi ng Vict Consultancy, a closed source nvda program developer as an example, have you considered approaching them with Leasey and seeing if Hartgen and Vict Consultancy can join forces? A Jaws development team and an nvda development team joining forces would make it easier and more ideal to maintain both versions of Leasey, and satisfy a whole lot more users. If you are not interested in doing that, could the games module at least be made stand-alone so that people can still enjoy the games regardless of screen reader? You want to reach quite the audience with games as well as leasey, but for games, this is the way to do it. Thank you for your consideration in advance.
Now that was written by me. I slaved over it all day!
But let's get back to the chase, let's say I was on the receiving end, I would find myself more compelled to not only take this message seriously, but maybe also to consider the points it mentioned. On the other hand if a message was thrown at me like Hi Mister Hard-gin what are you doing screwing us over like this and locking us away from q9 and any other games unless we have jaws this is an absolute outrage I want this undone Pronto! Then that is what I'd consider hatemail. In that case I would just laugh it off, respond with some way of saying, "Careful next time, you don't need to rage." delete it, trash it, most likely not consider doing what this random raging dude wanted, and get on with the rest of my day. In conclusion, the point here is that if ya wanna make a complaint or criticism, a devwould not only appreciate formality, constructive rather than destructive, criticism, but if he gets that rather than a destructive rage, don't you think maybe he might consider taking that into consideration?
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