Yes, but when they coined that impressive phrase, they assumed that the facts used would be relevant. Unless you actually know what happened to the glider you are just guessing and "the facts" put forward may be entirely irrelevant to what happened. Whilst you have said the the pilot can speak for himself, you then went ahead and suggested that he was low on approach.
Cheers Paul On 1 Mar 2016 21:29, "Peter Champness" <plchampn...@gmail.com> wrote: > "Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think > we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case." > > Disagree! Adelaide doctor can answer for himself. > > The approach to Waikerie airfield from the North involves; > 1, crossing the river, > 2. an up slope of 100 ft or more from the river. > 3. vineyards before the airfield boundary, > 4. powerlines. > 5. runway is uphill. > > Glider landed in the vines. The legal phase (sometimes used in medical > cases) is "res ipse loquitor" - the facts speek for themselves. > > Peter Champness > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Mike Borgelt < > mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote: > >> I was trying to figure out what you were getting at. I use a glide >> computer, not the Mark 1 eyeball for final glides. If you are going to do >> really skinny final glides it better be one you are familiar with and a >> glider you are familiar with. >> I'm also very conservative and while I've taken the risk of having an >> outlanding in order to gain contest points I've never knowingly risked my >> life by going where I couldn't reasonably get to a suitable landing area. >> I've been fortunate to have an outstanding crew who can drive and navigate >> and a good trailer so de-rigging is a simple 5 minute operation. Running >> into a rabbit hole in the paddock is just the luck of the draw. In 63 for >> real paddock landings the worst damage was a flat main tyre.(there's an >> interesting story - don't land out on the highest ground for about 100 km >> around - and eagles climb better than gliders) >> >> Anyway after looking at Google Earth and the TV footage I don't think >> we're talking about a misjudged skinny final glide in this case. YMMV (Your >> Mileage May Vary). Then again we may never get to know and speculation is >> all we have. >> It doesn't do any harm BTW. We have a broken glider and pilot and it can >> be a great learning experience to figure out how this MIGHT have happened. >> Trusting officialdom to come up with the truth is fraught. I know of one >> GFA accident investigation that was totally FUBAR because of faulty logic >> and lack of understanding of the characteristics of the instrumentation >> relied upon. >> The ATSB was brought into being because, quite rightly, it was perceived >> that the regulator would never find fault with its own rules and procedures >> even when they were contributory. The GFA investigates itself. >> Does anyone know what really happened at Ararat nearly 4 years ago? Like >> how many hours did the instructor have? How many solo? How many >> instructing? How many last 12 months, last 90 days? The US NTSB would let >> you know. >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> At 06:13 PM 3/1/2016, you wrote: >> >>> Possibly of interest Mike. >>> >>> Can you enlarge on this comment. Do you mean open the dive brakes 10 >>> km for the Airfield and make an off field landing, as I have suggested? >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:15 PM, Mike Borgelt <<mailto: >>> mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote: >>> I thought that's what dive brakes were for. >>> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> At 10:12 AM 3/1/2016, you wrote: >>> >>>> There have been quite a few accidents in recent years due to misjudging >>>> the approach to landing and undershooting. >>>> >>>> Clearly if the angle of approach seems too low a pilot will take option >>>> B and make an outlanding. It is probably much easier to see this in a >>>> short wing Kookaburra than it is in a 50:1 glider.  In a high >>>> performance glider the difference between a safe approach and a marginal >>>> one is about 1 degree. Worse still if the area adjacent to the runway >>>> is unlandable and hence the outlanding decision must be taken quite a way >>>> from the airfield.   >>>> >>>> Hence when flying a modern glider it is probably a good idea to add an >>>> additional safety margin >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 10:12 PM, Gary Stevenson <<mailto: >>>> gstev...@bigpond.com>gstev...@bigpond.com> wrote: >>>> Hello Bob, >>>> Good to see you in print again. >>>>  >>>> For newer members to our sport, Let me say that Bob has “been >>>> there and done that†in reference to most elements of our sport. OOn this >>>> particular aspect of our sport ..... yep he has  â€ÅÅ“ been there and >>>> done that†too, having looked Death in the eye after he had a nassty >>>> landing discussion with a fence. >>>>  >>>> Again for newer members, I have attached what is perhaps the seminal >>>> article (1993), on this subject, by a guy named Bruno Gantenbrink, (now >>>> another old fogey). However he was not always an old fogey, and you might >>>> be a bit surprised at some of the tricks he got up to! >>>>  >>>> I noted Richard Frawley’s one line comment nt with some surprise: >>>> Totally irrelevant here, but it could be the basis of a new thread: However >>>> I expect that this topic has already been done to death, so is not new. >>>>  >>>> Regards. >>>> Gary >>>>  >>>>  >>>> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On >>>> Behalf Of Bob Ward >>>> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 7:43 PM >>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>  >>>> If Peter Cesco with his myriad experience does not know that gliding is >>>> many times more dangerous than the drive to the airport, then I am truly >>>> amazed. In my forty nine years continuous participation with the sport, I >>>> can now count thirteen people I knew who have perished whilst perusing >>>> gliding. Two of these were members of my own club, and several were >>>> competition associates. >>>> I do not have any answer as to how we promote our sport if we are >>>> honest and face up to the fact that it is essentially “œbloody >>>> dangerous†. This is of course a dilemma facing the GFA and individuals >>>> or groups trying to promote our sport. However I cringe when I hear glider >>>> pilots try to perpetuate the old myth “the most t dangerous part of >>>> gliding is the drive to the airport†>>>> Otherwise I agree that Peter’s TV spot was as a creditable >>>> performance. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Bob Ward >>>>  >>>> From: <mailto:glenn...@bigpond.com>Glenn McLean >>>> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 6:04 PM >>>> To: <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>Discussion of issues >>>> relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>  >>>> Thanks David. >>>> Glenn >>>> On 2/29/2016 6:41 PM, David Holmes wrote: >>>> >>>> HI Glen >>>>  >>>> Is this what you want? >>>>  >>>> >>>> < >>>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results >>>> > >>>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results >>>> >>>> < >>>> http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/2016-nsw-state-championships-lake-keepit-gld-2016/results>Soaring >>>> Spot :: 2016 NSW State Championships >>>> >>>> <http://www.soaringspot.com>www.soaringspot.com >>>> Lake Keepit Gld, Australia, 27 February 2016 – 5 March 2016 ... >>>>  >>>>  >>>>  >>>> Kind Regards, >>>> >>>> David >>>>  >>>> ---------- >>>> From: Aus-soaring <mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au >>>> >mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au on behalf of Glenn >>>> McLean <mailto:glenn...@bigpond.com>mailto:glenn...@bigpond.com >>>> Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016 6:34 PM >>>> To: <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> >>>> aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>  >>>> Hi Derek, >>>> Any idea on how to access info about the NSW State Comps? I looked at >>>> the keepit website and it goes nowhere. >>>> Regards >>>> Glenn >>>> On 2/29/2016 4:29 PM, Derek wrote: >>>> >>>> Any idea why he didn’t land on the clear strip jp just to the right? >>>>  >>>>  >>>> From: Aus-soaring [ mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On >>>> Behalf Of Mark Newton >>>> Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 1:54 PM >>>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pete Cesco on TV >>>>  >>>> On Feb 29, 2016, at 1:50 PM, Anthony Smith <<mailto: >>>> anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> anthony.sm...@adelaide.on.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>  >>>> Which show was it on? >>>> >>>>  >>>> >>>> < >>>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30949880/adelaide-doctor-recovering-in-hospital-after-glider-crash/#page1 >>>> > >>>> https://au.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/30949880/adelaide-doctor-recovering-in-hospital-after-glider-crash/#page1 >>>>  >>>>   - mark >>>>  >>>>  >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Aus-soaring mailing >>>> >>>> list >>>> >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> >>>> >>>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>  >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Aus-soaring mailing >>>> >>>> list >>>> >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> >>>> >>>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>>  >>>> >>>> ---------- >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>>> >>> >>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >>> instrumentation since 1978 >>> <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/>www.borgeltinstruments.com >>> tel:  07 4635 5784     overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >>> mob: 042835 5784                : int+61-42835 5784 >>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au>Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >>> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >>> >> >> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >> instrumentation since 1978 >> www.borgeltinstruments.com >> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au >> http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > >
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