My spin training was just as Harry described below, in a K7 at Dunstable. Talk about ground rush…
I would never, ever get into a Puchacz to spin it, especially off a winch launch. We need to retain all the pilots we have. From: Aus-soaring [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.base64.com.au] On Behalf Of Harry Sent: Sunday, 8 May 2016 12:54 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The Golden Age Hi All, A few comments to add to Peter Brockman’s thoughtful contribution. My first experience as an instructor in relation to spin training was at a winch launch club which on a yearly basis brought in a tug and training involved a 3,000 ft. launch. No problem with spin recovery with trainees or those seeking a yearly revalidation. It was done correctly. My next experience was at a winch launch club where aerotow was unavailable and for some of the year difficult to climb away after a winch launch. After personal experimentation I was able, using a Blanik which has benign spin training characteristics, to enter a spin at 1,300 ft, execute one turn and recover by the mandated 1,000 ft. However the student response was quite different. Despite very careful preflight briefing the student, as soon as he saw the ground directly underneath him, would pull the control column backwards and also away from the downgoing wing. Just what you would do to keep a glider in a spin. Pilots need to told of this automatic reaction, even though training is done at a high altitude. I also used to say to nervous pilots, (most of them), that what we were doing was spin avoidance training. First item was to fly the glider at safe speed near the ground and invite them to fly the glider in as an unbalanced way as possible and attempt to induce a stall or spin. The other item I considered important was that on every training flight, from the very first, was to to positively emphasise that when we were below the height from which spin recovery was doubtful, to consciously select safe speed near the ground. On early winch training flights, to maximise time available, I would waffle along downwind leg training as we went. What I was teaching them subliminally was that I myself was happy to break the safe speed near the ground rule. Harry Medlicott From: Peter Brookman <mailto:peter.brook...@bigpond.com> Sent: Saturday, May 07, 2016 10:25 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The Golden Age I notice the reference to a club that bought a Puchacz, would be our club, BKGC, that bought the Puchacz from DDSC , so we could conform with GFA requirement for fully developed spins and recovery as part of the AFR. We have tried to have club members travel to another club for spin checks, while a few did it was not a workable solution for our members. We have a Twin Astir which is very difficult to get to spin (only if pilot weights as correct), and I don’t see how we are expected to add things to the aircraft to make it do manoeuvres it was designed not to do. Also if you do get the Twin to spin which we have on odd occasions, it can get quite violent when rotating and I don’t think a good idea for students and others to have to experience. I don’t see the merit of doing fully developed spins on a regular basis (apart from the increased risk of accident or structural failure), we should be teaching the importance of safe speed near the ground, recognise the onset of a stall or spin and recover. As we know a fully developed spin ( not taking action at the signs of a spin developing) any thing below 500 ft will probably end in disaster. I know for the AFR these spins will usually be done at 3,000 ft or more, in our club with winch launching and typical launch heights of 1,000 – 1,200 ft its not always easy to get away with the intention of getting high enough to complete the spin checks during the cooler months of the year. I do believe that all students or early solo pilots should have experienced some aerobatics (inc Spins) with a suitably qualified instructor to experience unusual attitudes an aircraft can get into and out of. Having bought the Puchacz so we can comply with GFA , the 2 x2 seaters in our club has proved to be a great asset as these are the most flown aircraft especially during the cooler months, one for instructing the other for passengers of members flying together. From: Peter Champness <mailto:plchampn...@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 6:43 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] The Golden Age As I understand it, Chris Thorpe's annual spin edict is based on accident stats indicating stall spin at low altitude is the cause of many fatal accidents. Almost all such incidents result in impact with the ground. The Level One instructor refresher course spent some time on the spin entry and recovery. The spin entry is designed to show how a spin can occur from an apparently almost normal attitude, hence the importance of Safe Speed Near the Ground. Spin recovery is to practice recognition of the spin onset and rapid recovery using correct technique. That seems like a prudent policy. The more practice at a safe altitude the better. A club should not have to buy a Puchacz, just to do annual spin checks. Plenty of clubs have spinable gliders. Pilots could travel to a suitable club to get their spin training and annual spin check On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Mike Borgelt <mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> wrote: Very nice defence of never trying to make anything better. There are people looking at gliding in Australia (for every participant there are approximately 9999 non participants) trying to make it simpler, cheaper and more accessible. Unfortunately the control group are doing their best to do the opposite. I've heard of one club actually buying a Puchacz to fulfill Chris Thorpe's stupid annual spin edict. You would have to be utterly stupid or have no regard for your safety to spin one of those, especially under the circumstances in it will be done in the average gliding club. For the other gliders which require whiskers or tail ballast to spin, what message do you think that subtly sends to people? Mike At 09:35 AM 5/6/2016, you wrote:  Very well said Gary! Nice to read something positive an uplifting on this list. I don't often feel the need to reply to messages I read here, but your email made me smile. Life is what you make of it, the fact we are able to take part in this crazy sport of ours means we are the lucky ones! We shouldn't forget it. Time spent sitting in front of a keyboard talking about how good it all used to be is time wasted. There's a weekend approaching. Get out there and make the most of it. I certainly will be :-) Best Regards to all Tom W ======================================================== Emilis, on consideration, I do not entirely agree with your recent comments. Golden ages live in our memories, but (fortunately/unfortunately), memories are fallable. In any case, all that you refer has passed ..for ever. As always, NOW is the time to seize the moment Let me suggest to you and to everyone else who is a member of this forum, that the reality of gliding in Australia today .... right now ...... is that we are living in an era WHERE THIS IT IS AS GOOD AS IT IS EVER GOING TO GET. THIS is the golden age. So I suggest, ENJOY, ENJOY, ENJOY, whilst you still can. Regards, Gary _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring _____ _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Image removed by sender. 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