I strongly disagree that the GFA is anything to do with pilots leaving gliding-and I suspect that expense increases as well as the fact that most families now have both parents working is by far the more important factor I would doubt more than 10% left to take up another form of aviation.
I seem to be under some misapprehension as regards the proposed change, I was unaware that it was to be optional. Having rejoined a club in recent years I can definately say that the average pilot is far more well off in respect to the average pilot 20 years ago.this is not any form of communism just good old fact!(Just look around the carpark!) I was of the understanding that self launchers could be flown under GA conditions or as Gliders under the GFA,, if so(And I stand to be corrected on this) would that not be an answer for those who wish to operate independantly? I apologise if I offended you with repect to the owners of Motor glider (I was really trying to say that perhaps being in that position effects ones perspetive in respect to grass roots issues) this was not my intention and I am interested in your rebuiding jobs, could you perhaps tell us more I hope to do a similar thing one day It is all very well to go on about legal liability but that is not new the instructors who taught and supervised most of us took that risk thats why we can fly now! The grumpy old men to whom refer have in my experience had a vast amount of excellent knowledge and when approached respectfully have been more than happy to help my flying in any way-perhaps these "Floppy flyers" to whom you referer are the problem, their attitude being reflected back at them by the glider people some of whom have been at their clubs for along time and have a large investment of time and effort in their clubs and aircraft? I am well aware of the coming trends in light weight/small sailplanes and have been keeping an eye on sevearal interesting developments myself, but if I decide to persue that I will not expect the GFA to change the rules to suit me. >From TRW Dav OFITTH's Rule OK! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Rundle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [aus-soaring] Rec License > > > > > Dav, > > >These so called people who accept responsibility should remember the > >responsibility to an organisation that probably provided the infrastructure > >for them to learn to fly in the first place. After all when YOU learnt to > >fly it was because of past instructors efforts and sacrifice exactly that > >which you whinge about now. > > > Wrong! I don't whinge about their efforts at all what I'm whinging about > is a system that > forever makes me an impost on them. It would be much more satisfactory > if the day to day > flying was handled by the mature pilots and the instructors could focus > on instructing new > students. This is how it is in every other sport including every other > form of flying. Gliding > is completely out of kilter with the expectations of the recreational > public and that is why > it is in decline! > > >As for comments regarding the number of pilots leaving the sport that is > >simply a reflection of the fact that gliding is not an option financially > >for 80% of people, if they can't afford it they can't fly. > > > Yes, but I'm not asking them to pay more money am I? As stated plainly > in my post if they > choose to continue to fly under instructional supervision they will be > able too. This system > *cannot* be destroyed even if CASA wanted to, because you can't get a > license instantaneously > you have to do the hours, and you will need to fly solo, supervised > (even GA pilots learn > to fly in such a system). So the current GFA system is under no threat > from an RPL as long > as people such as yourself wish to instruct at no charge. Whether such > people will continue > to exist is another matter, it's my belief that they won't, in which > case if gliding insists on an > instructional supervisory system it will get very expensive! By freeing > instructors of the legal > liability of being responsible for all pilots on the airfield it might > even encourage people such > as myself to become instructors. At the moment though, I won't even > consider it. > (comment from you about my attitude not being suitable to be an > instructor not required!) > > >Whether not not someone wishes to fly any other kind of aircraft is their > >own business but is totally irrelevant to this issue- the issue here is the > >future of gliding > > > No it isn't totally irrelevant, because where to you think some of the > 3000 or so glider pilots > have gone that have left the sport in the past two decades. They have > choosen to fly other > kinds or aircraft. If the people I keep meeting on airfields is any > guide, many of them would > love to return to some form of gliding but not the communistic system > which drove them out > in the first place. > > >and whether or not gliding counts towards other forms of > >flight is simply a matter of convenience for a very limited number of > >people if they want other licenses they are quite welcome- I would not dream > >of objecting, however what you do in your non gliding activities ie ppl etc > >is totally unimportant to this discussion.You may spend your money on any > >other form of flight but that is YOUR choice and of no relevance to gliding > >or this issue. > > > Total lack of vision here. There is a market for people who wish to > learn to fly, not necessarily > gliders. If an RPL glider rating is actually recognised by other forms > of aviation as of some > value (as opposed to the lousy 10 hours they credit us as worth now) > then training initially > on gliders and then crossing over to GA or Ulight could be a *cheaper* > option, and could > lead to more pilots getting hooked on gliding as they pass through. I'm > not claiming that this > is by any means certain, but it is a real possibility. > > Further more there is a large pool of "unreal" glider pilots who are > currently enjoying flying > floppies and lawn darts but who will tire of that form of flight but > want to continue to soar. > As they get older and have more disposable income, gliders are a logical > next step for them. > However, this generation of pilots currently has the freedom to fly > where and when they want > without instructional supervision. There is *NO* way that a large group > of them will submit to > the restrictive GFA system. > > I know this because I fly floppies and meet these guys all the time. > Just yesterday a couple > of us managed to get a flight in, we went to the hill and launched flew > and landed safely > without the presense of an instructor. Why is this not possible in the > GFA system? > > These guys are facinated with sailplanes but taking any of them to a > GFA club results in > immediate repulsion, a quote which I have used on this list before but > is entrenched in my > mind is "glidings great but how do you stand all the grumpy old men". > (And BTW > "grumpy old men" is a euphmism for anybody who seeks to lord it over > other pilots. > > >The one third that leave will be those unable to afford additional expense > >both those generous with their time and those not. > > > And how will the introduction of an RPL create additional expense for > those that *choose* > NOT to apply for the license? > > >If my club is not flying on a particular day I accept that, and wait for > >another day what is so difficult about that? > > > The fact that this is an unnecessary loss of opportunity to do what we > are all about, fly gliders! > Some people (and I'm not refering to myself here) have limited > opportunity to do so, lost days > simply results in less hours for that person and subsequently less > income for their club! > > >what real grounds do you have against my objection to this change? > > > The fact that if an RPL is introduced and you *choose* not to apply for > one, it will have zero impact > on your chosen form of flying. However you seek to prevent all of the > benefits that I have listed > above that could potentially come from the introduction of an RPL! > > >I will not dwell on the delights of 1/3 of pilots leaving the sport as you > >state you are hoping will happen. > > > Now you are miss quoting me. I do not wish to see 1/3 of pilots leave > the sport, my comment was > a sarcastic one that, If by people, such as myself, bettering themselves > (at NO cost to those that > choose not to) causes those pilots to decide to give up gliding then I > have nothing but contempt > for them. Your suggestion is equivalent to me going, "gee so and so has > got an Air Transport > Licence, I feel so inadequate I'd better give up gliding." If I took > this attitude I wouldn't blame people > for treating me with contempt. > > >No part of gliding should be sacrificed for the convenience of those who > >wish to fly other aircraft of any form. Despite their rantings of > >benefits-to them. > > > It's not benefits to them, it's benefits to the whole gliding movement. > It's a sad reflection of the > state of gliding that most "pure" gliding people can't see this. > > >My apologies to those of you that do not own motor gliders > > > It's not about motor gliders, it's about AUGC not losing flying days. > Furthermore your implied > attitude that because I have a motor glider I must be rich and rich > people are contemptable smacks > of soviet style communistic beliefs. The fact is that I have worked > extremely hard to get both > my aircraft, rebuilding one from a wreck and the other from not much > better. But that is irrelevant, > nor should it make me a better or more worthy person from someone who > works for an income and > chooses to buy their glider instead. I personally can't fathom a person > spending (as a house mate > of mine once said) "$150K on an aircraft with no engine and only one > wheel!" But I do not despise > them for it, nor do I seek to prevent them from flying it without the > supervision of an instructor. > > It's about taking responsibility for your own recreational enjoyment and > not imposing on others. > In the current system I can decide on Saturday morning if I want to go > flying, or I can decide to > stay in bed. The rostered instructor doesn't have that luxury, if they > decide not to front for the > day then they will face a barage of critism from those pilots that can't > fly (this happened recently > at my club and the shock waves are still rolling around the club). This > is a ridiculous situation, > sure the students might have a right to feel a bit peeved but should be > able to accept it, instructors > are people and their lives impose on their recreational time. The other > pilots however have every > right to be annoyed with a system that causes the loss of flying! > > Dav you and I will have to agree to disagree because I will never be > swayed that we should > preserve the current system. The current system has seen the departure > of over 3000 pilots > in 20 years. Unless gliding makes some serious changes then this trend > will continue. A > streamlined licensing system will bring direct benefits to those that > apply for it and could > bring many benefits to gliding as a whole if managed correctly. If the > national body for soaring > was proactive about it instead of seeking to preserve it's little > enclave, then it should be possible > to develop such a system without any negative impact. If the GFA refuses > to be part of such a > system then it will be swept aside and your beloved form of flying will > go with it. Don't doubt > for a minute that this will happen, it's happening already, there is > another generation of soaring > pilots who exist outside the GFA system, their gliders are becoming more > and more sophisticated > I have friends who are buying or building such aircraft. > > In business they say either change or die, the GFA refuses to change, > > It's your funeral > > rgds > > Pete. > > > > -- > * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list. > * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message > * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information. > -- * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list. * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
