And the we did plenty of spins in the Cap10s at the ADF Flight
Training School.
David O
On 12/02/2007, at 1:30 PM, Derek Ruddock wrote:
Good example..
And what would the result have been if you had not been taught spin
recovery during training?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nick Gilbert
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 1:23 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pirat and Polish glider that would not
spin...
I don't think its a bad idea to intentionally spin a glider
providing it is rated for them - doesn't hurt to know under
controlled circumstances what it's habits are.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with an instructor at my
gliding club yesterday - how many people here have accidently spun
a glider? What were the circumstances? I have done it once - I was
flying a mosquito and the flap handle was moved out of the detent
by my leg whilst thermalling. Didn't progress beyond about 1/2 a
turn though.
Nick.
On 2/12/07, Alan WIlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well what would we do if we found a Polish [or any] glider that
would not spin? Could we certify it?
GFA still fears WW I spins, and w have to teach spin training,
even have to make students spin and recover. Whereas our powered
brethren gave it up shortly after Pontius....
We should embrace a design that will not spin, and concentrate on
teaching safe speed [and emphasise horizon attitude, not speed]
near the ground so spins are unnecessary.
SMFSLT
Alan Wilson
PS Would you intentionally spin an ASH 25, DG 1000, or even your
ASW 20. ..... and Why?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] On Behalf Of Nick Gilbert
Sent: Monday, 12 February 2007 10:09 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pirat
Does anyone know of a Polish glider that wont spin?
Nick.
On 2/12/07, Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
wrote:
Jonoh, Jarek (and others).
I never meant that it wouldn't spin, just that the German club who
owned the speciment that I flew preferred that us aussies didn't
spin their aircraft (which I subsequently found out was due to a
fatal accident the week before we arrived). Cathy and I spun their
Bocian, but when flying with one of the senior club instructors in
the DG1000, he was very reluctant to spin that too. I hasten to
add, it wasn't because the"Germans don't teach spinning" which is
an untrue meme often found in Australia. Their reluctance was a
combination of what had recently happened and the unknown quantity
of us "spin mad" Aussies descending on their club.
From my incipients etc in the Pirat, I would expect it to behave
"like any 60s wooden glider" ie _slightly_ more spin/departure
prone than most latter glass gliders, but in a spin (and during
recovery) behave in a text book manner (ie honest, no surprises).
Regards
SWK
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: aus-
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonoh
Sent: Saturday, 10 February 2007 5:22 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pirat
I flew several hundred hours in a club owned Pirat, from 1975 to
83. There were two others based in the vicinity and I have a photo
somewhere of the 3 of them lined up on the Upper Valley club Strip
near Wellington NZ.
I can likewise confirm that the Pirat will spin. A long time ago
now but I think it had fairly benign characteristics, and standard
recovery techniques resulted in a quick exit from the spin. Like
its stable mates, the SZD Foka and Cobra, it was good for a
reasonable range of aerobatic maneuvers. The Cobra was the pick of
the 3 for aerobatics, but the Pirat wasn't too bad. Its repertoire
included a maneuver called, I think, the snap half roll, but I only
knew one club member brave enough to attempt it.
It was strongly built (and fairly heavy, especially the center
section!), and if I recall correctly it was rated for +6/-3.5g.
Unfortunately one club member, around 1984, discovered the limits
of its strength and didn't live to tell the tale. Shortly after
release on a strong wave day it seems he got into cloud and lost
control. The tow pilot descended down through the cloud gap until
below cloud base at around 5000' and then headed back the field.
He saw the fuselage of the Pirat minus wing emerge from the cloud
heading vertically for the ground. Fragments of the wing fluttered
to the ground for some time afterwards.
The cause of the accident wasn't definitely determined, although
the pilot had made no attempt to bail out and there was a suspicion
of heart attack. He had suffered an early cardiac event which he
failed to mention during his medical. The barograph trace showed
the rapid descent had commenced at 7000' and a meaningful autopsy
could not be performed.
I remember my hours in the Pirat with much affection but I don't
think I could describe it as delightful to fly. Its controls were
not well harmonized and it had quite heavy ailerons. After a 5 ½
hour flight in wave one day my right arm was still feeling the
effects 24 hours later! The Foka was nicer, but it was a big
contrast after flying the Pirat to climb into a K6. In comparison
that was delightful to fly.
RKM
----- Original Message -----
From: Jarek Mosiejewski
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pirat
Hi,
It does spin. Among other duties, it's been used in Poland for
basic aerobatic training - spin, loop, wingover...
There is one in Bacchus Marsh (VH - XLS), owned by a syndicate of
Geelong Gliding Club members.
Regards
Jarek
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pirat
SZD 30 = Polish?? I rigged one and definitely a three person job.
Didn't spin, not my club.
GH
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Sent: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 3:58 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Pirat
http://toohardtodo.blogspot.com/2004/07/257-klix-official-practice-
day_25.html
A very upright seating position from memory, but was pretty
comfortable. The Germans were a bit worried about spinning (for
other reasons). I didn't spin it but did some mushy stall things.
Not much different to any 60s wooden aircraft. They seemed to be
inordinately popular in the old East Germany. The rigging was
awkward (3 piece wing, you can see the kink in the wing in the
photo where the join is), but overall an honest aeroplane.
Sadly the photo is not so clear, the glider carries a shark face.
SWK
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