Hi All, A little bit of time has passed since BT first raised this issue, and we now have substantially more input. Ross's post sheds some light on the current state of play by the NCC. Obviously I was not at the last Junior's Pilot Meeting, but I was certainly present at the other two meetings held in Benalla & Temora. My recollection of the discussion at Temora is similar to that of Robert and Jo, as already posted.
So the question that still remains unanswered by anybody is "WHY IS THIS ISSUE BEING CONSIDERED AT ALL BY THE NCC?". Is it unreasonable on behalf of all the competition pilots in Australia to DEMAND an answer to that question from the NCC? A couple of posts (Tim and Mark) intimate that these two pilots can live with ( until they are killed by), the proposed new system. However I understand they have never tried this system! WPP has tried (and survived) a British Junior Worlds, using such a system, but he also states that the conditions he flew under were very different to what we generally enjoy here in Australia. I therefore suggest that most of his experience is not pertinent to the current debate. (Would it be relevant/fair to state here that he is also young and fearless?). As I do not have any practical experience of the proposed system, I cannot make an informed comment using that base. However like those who have given this matter any thought, I can certainly envision at least some of the various (horrific), scenarios. In addition, I am sure that the considered (experienced based), concerns as expressed by Bruce, Jim and Gerrit, on this matter, are very real. Therefore (as at Temora), I once again say don't change the existing system, a view that is supported by the majority of competition pilots at Temora. (We all know the old maxim - If it aint broke . don't fix it!) On the matter of task setting in Australia at a major comp on a day when there is a possibility of wave being present - be it shear, or mountain (somewhat unlikely) generated wave - I suggest that a few operational notes might be put into the tasksetters' manual as dot points, based on what has been discussed over the last few days - but really guys, why don't we leave it to the expertise of the task setting committee? As a small aside, and perhaps somewhat off the topic, (other than an example of expertise), I congratulate Peter Trotter and his team, on the superb job they did last year at the Kingaroy Club/Sports Class Nationals, in what can only be described as extremely difficult circumstances. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Ross McLean To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 9:31 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Start procedures Jim If you go to the following link on the GFA website you will find the current set of rules, V1.53 August 2007. http://www.gfa.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=393&Itemid=184 The three pilots meetings held each year at the National Competitions, Juniors, Club Class, and Multi Class, provide input and direction to the NCC on various rule change requests. These are carried to the NCC through the Pilot Representatives, elected by the Pilots at those meetings, (1 for Juniors, 2 Club Class, and 2 Multi Class). The NCC is composed of those elected Pilot Reps and the NCC Convener. The requests and suggestions are discussed in detail by all members of the NCC, both prior to, and at, that meeting, and where appropriate, either rules or guidelines are formulated as a result. The proposed rule changes are then circulated through various members of the gliding fraternity, experienced competition pilots, International pilots, thought leaders, previous members of NCC, and long time glider pilots, for a reality check. At this stage, after further NCC discussion, the rules can be amended, trialled, or scrapped. Only after this quite rigorous process are they implemented into a new revision of the rules. This process is currently in train for V1.6 of the rules which are still in Draft form. Bruce had been included in this process, which is normally done in camera, but unfortunately, rather than participate in the process, he has chosen to go public with his opinion thereby causing the concern that both yourself and Jo have expressed and no doubt others have also felt. I find this regrettable and disappointing. NCC will continue this process of rules determination by informed consensus, and only then will the new release of V1.6 be implemented and published on the GFA website, replacing the current version. Current pilot representatives to the NCC are: Juniors - Heath L'Estrange Club Class - Peter Temple and David Janssen Multi Class - Peter Trotter and Don Woodward These are the guys you elected to represent you and they are the people you need to talk to, to express your concerns and be positively and further involved in formulation of any new initiatives. ROSS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of james crowhurst Sent: Thursday, 29 May 2008 11:02 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Start procedures Bruce, I hear the same rumour. I went to the GFA website and found only the 2001 rules and so cannot substantiate this change in the rules. I agree that this rule can work if a start line is introduced. used it for years whilst flying in the rain in Pommy land. Seemed ok then but there is increased workload in comparison to aussie rules. The rule was brought in then to prevent cloud flying in the start gate (even though you can start out of the top of the start sector, go figure!). If the height and speed are limited and we must also use the beer can, it has disaster written all over it. The suggestion of having a start height and speed limit was brought up at the pilots meeting by Dave Jansen. He saw merit in the idea but the majority of the group thought that it would add too much heads in focus and complicated an already over regulated and stressful situation. If this rule change has taken place, I would like to know why the comps committee have implemented this rule change when the majority thought it a bad idea. In conclusion, I too believe that this rule change will have a severely adverse effect on start gate safety and would like to seek clarity on this rule change and the reasons for it. Then I would like to see the rule overturned. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 21:32:42 +1000 Subject: [Aus-soaring] Start procedures Just wondering if there is general knowledge of the new start procedures for Aussie nationals? I first heard of it last w/e at Kingaroy. Seems we will be both height and speed limited - obviously one must not be implemented without the other, and all this with the same style of "beer can" start point, albeit slightly enlarged. I have some serious issues with this idea regarding safety. Having flown with height restrictions at a number of competitions, I have found it a difficult exercise requiring lots of head-down time. I have only flown this rule in conjunction with a start LINE, where everybody must cross in the one direction - not so our new system. The pilot must confirm being below height limit, below ground speed limit and inside start radius while still within the start area. This area naturally has a concentration of glider traffic, which may be arriving/leaving/thermalling in any number of directions. I am not promoting we return to a start line - we abandoned that idea more than a decade ago in the interests of... safety. We have refined the multiple start point system to suit our weather and tasks, and I believe that it has saved lives. I imagine the new procedure was raised to promote the perception of fairness; it may offend competitors to think that someone has climbed to flight levels in shear wave, whilst they are fumbling below cloud base thousands of feet below. I have to say that I myself have benefited from such a situation... just once in nearly 20 years of competition. If this is the problem, all we have to do is ensure that the task setters do not set a first leg that goes downwind. Simple as that. Even if you do start with a height advantage, this will be entirely lost by the time you arrive at the first thermal climb with all those who started much lower, due to your having flown into a much stronger headwind. All experienced nationals pilots I have asked about this matter agree totally. I feel very strongly about this. The new procedure is difficult and dangerous, and I believe it has hit the table with less than the required amount of forethought. BT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get Started! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1473 - Release Date: 5/29/2008 7:53 PM
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