Hi Rolf,
I see that you entirely missed the point of this post. The heading should have
given you your first clue.
To my knowledge, there has not been ANY discussion on trying to put some
numbers on the value of team flying.
So .. do YOU think that good team flying (on average), gives the team an
advantage over an individual pilot? If so, by how much? Is it even possible to
specify a number range?
Obviously there are lots of variables, and as Tom has already implied, just
one of these is the relative skill level of every pilot in a particular
contest, be they team flyers or not. Under what conditions is team flying most
advantageous? When is it least advantageous? Do you think that the location of
a site will give some individual pilots an advantage, or on the other hand can
site location advantage a team, more so than an individual?
WPP has already made the interesting point that the British Juniors are
changing the way they intend to tackle the current world contest, but of course
this has nothing to do with trying to come up with a set (or sets?), of numbers.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: rolf a. buelter
To: aus soaring ; to...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?
We've had this discussion for years ad nauseam. As no new facts emerged there
is no use at all to have the discussion again. The current rehash serves only
those who want to re-read their own arguments of the past. I'm quite sure there
is a history funtion somewhere which can be used for that purpose without
annoying all others.
Rolf
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gstev...@bigpond.com
To: to...@yahoo.com; aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 01:22:02 +1000
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?
Hi Tom,
Good to hear from you. Re your earlier post on Mac and the Diana 2, my
understanding of this situation is that landing problems are about par for the
course! Take-offs too in this ship are also supposed to be quite interesting,
probably for exactly the same reasons you alluded to. I am somewhat surprised
that the production factory is still going - if indeed it still is! Apart from
anything else the owner BB seems to have (or had? - does the leopard change its
spots?), an attitude problem. I have had some slight dealings with him in the
recent past. My experience was not that his attitude was the problem, but the
fact that the man would mostly not answer any straight question, posed to him.
Re your response to my latest post - it is an interesting aside. Do you
really expect these two day winners to be on the podium at the end of the
contest? What is your real belief re team flying? If you think team flying
improves the chance of a team member winning, don't be a wooze - answer my
question. Say hi to Kerrie for me. Have fun.
Cheers,
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: tom claffey
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2011 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?
The two winners at Uvalde yesterday did not team fly! :]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "gstev...@bigpond.com" <gstev...@bigpond.com>
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
<aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>
Sent: Sunday, 7 August 2011 11:59 PM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Team flying - what is it worth?
Hallo All,
Preamble
For years, there has been robust debate in this country, on the subject of
team flying in Australian Competitions. Some pilots are strongly for it, some
strongly against it, and some are ambivalent. Some pilots have been known to
change their viewpoint, when their own circumstances change!
It is generally acknowledged, that in any modern competition, where the
practice of team flying is allowed, (such as a World Championship), GOOD team
flying is essential if any team wants to get at least one of their members onto
the podium. I have used the word "GOOD" quite advisably, because, like
everything else in gliding, it takes considerable time and practice to perfect
the necessary skills.
****************************************************************
That is of course the rub. How can this practice be carried out? This is
not the question here, but Allan Barnes, a member of the DDSC has seriously
considered this particular question and offered some suggestions. In passing,
I suggest here, that if the team changes, then it is probably necessary to
return to the basics, at least in the short term, to develop the essential
trust and rapport that is required in this exercise. I would expect that two
pilots who are experienced team flyers (but not with each other), can far more
quickly become a new team, than a team made up of any other combination such
as: Two pilots who have never team flown at all; a team of one experienced team
flyer, and one pilot who has never team flown before. A further interesting
question is "what is the ideal team size"? My own suspicion is that to a
limited extent, more is better. In the world of professional bike racing, the
team size is 9 riders. In gliding at World level, I think 3 pilots per class is
the official limit, so I suspect that the possibilities of a team larger than 3
has never been explored! Can perhaps some research dollars be obtained (to the
greater good of Oz gliding, and indeed World gliding), to explore this subject?
I am certain that there is the odd PhD or two that could be obtained here, and
the pilots in the studies would of course have to undergo maybe hundreds of
hours of team flying in the interest of this research! What a bugger!
**************************************************************
The Question
For the sake of this post, assume that we have a team of two pilots who
are competent in team flying. They are pitted against many individual pilots.
As outlined above, we know that there is an advantage in team flying.
So the question is "what do YOU think is the percentage advantage of the
team flyers over an individual pilot under 'normal' Australian Summer
conditions." As every exam paper demands - state why you formed this viewpoint.
Regards,
Gary
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