Is this what you had in mind Anthony? http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/index.php?id=seitenfaden-e
Ulrich -----Original Message----- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Anthony Smith Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2014 16:49 To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Spin training You probably could do something very easily for modern non-flapped gliders. AoA indicators have been around for a long time. You could have three critical angles annotated on the device display: stall, climb and cruise. Flapped gliders would need to have a method of knowing what the flap deflection is which would change these angles a bit depending on the deflection. The problem would be whether pilots would want an extra device protruding into the laminar flow on the forward fuselage or not. I may have mentioned the following previously: As an aside, the static system on the P-3 Orion is excellent for detecting stall - just not in the expected way. The original static system was on the forward fuselage. However , it was found to have disturbed airflow when the bomb bay doors were open. An alternate static location was found on the aft fuselage. Arguably it was a better site as the error correction for the static system was significantly smaller and it was not affected by the bomb bay doors being open. However, the new static ports were in the wake from the upper surface of the wing. As soon as the wing root airflow on the wing upper surface starts to separate, the static system becomes subject to large pressure disturbances and the ASI and the altimeter become unresponsive and both of the needles start to bounce around. So if you experience buffet in a P-3 and the ASI and altimeter needles are bouncing around, it is a stall. During discussions a few years ago about P-3 stall warning, I suggested that it may be feasible to directly tap into the static system and detect the pressure fluctuations from the flow separation and hence provide a stall warning. The proposal was rejected as it needed a lot of R & D thrown at it to develop the idea. Something like this may be the 'better mouse trap' for gliders. A pressure transducer system connected to the upper surface trailing edge of the wing at a suitable point on each side that trips a warning if separated flow is detected. This would be a direct measurement of impending stall rather than implied through AoA or computing speed, g and wing loading etc. Anthony -----Original Message----- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Michael Derry Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2014 10:29 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Spin training The report reminds us how useless the ASI is during spins. You are better off judging speed using the noise levels assessed by your ears. Why hasn't some instrument maker built a better mousetrap than the one we have ? On Sat, 27 Dec 2014 08:56:09 +1030 "Ulrich Stauss" <usta...@internode.on.net> wrote: > This is a multipart message in MIME format. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/john.cochrane/research/Data_and_Progra > ms/CFI/AFFTC-TR-89-27%20Spin%20Test.pdf > > > > Ulrich > > > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron > Sanders > Sent: Saturday, 27 December 2014 08:44 > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Spin training > > > > Bernard, good morning, i would lke o read that report too please? > > > > Ron > > > > On 27 December 2014 at 08:18, Bernhard <ec...@internode.on.net> wrote: > > Hello Paul, good morning all > > > > You might be interested to know that the US Air Force has already been > using the ASK21 for spin training over several > > decades. > > > > Therefore you might want to refer to a report by the US Air Force on > the spin characteristics of the ASK 21. It was done > > by experts in the field and true professionals. When you read the > report you will find that it was perhaps the most > > comprehensive study into the subject ever done. > > > > To save you digging around I have attached a copy for you! > > > > Kind regards to all > > > > Bernard > > > > > > > > On 26 Dec 2014, at 10:05 pm, Paul Bart <pb2...@gmail.com > <mailto:pb2...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > On 26 December 2014 at 19:33, Daryl Mackay <darylmac...@gmail.com > <mailto:darylmac...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > > Suffice to say no instructor willingly uses the ASK21 for spin awareness > training at Beverley. > > > > ​Hi Daryl > > > > Would you mind explaining why? This is a genuine inquiry as my club is > about to take a delivery of one.​ > > > > > > ​Cheers > > > > Paul​ > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.onnet> > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.onnet> > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
