s/Fourth Amendment On Sat, 24 Nov 2018 at 12:15, Paul Wilkins <paulwilkins...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's a very good question how, when anyone who knows what they're talking > about opposes the Bill > as an effective and reasonable approach to fighting terrorism and serious > crime in the context of increasing use of encryption, why is the Home > Affairs Department foisting this ill considered and poorly developed Bill > on the Nation? > > I think partly it's cultural cringe. The NSA surveil their citizens, and > when ministers attend 5 Eyes conferences, they want to be just as macho. > But of course, the NSA have a clue, and they're resourced. It's still > dazzling that the NSA could have been in breach of the 1st Amendment for as > long as they were. In Australia we don't have a Bill of Rights, because > government has always observed the Westminster convention that we'll > respect the traditions of democracy - until they choose not to. > > It's not so important whether those pushing the Bill on us understand the > technical consequences. They're taking advice from people they trust. > Dutton comes from the Queensland Police, and Hastie, the PJCIS Chairman, > was a Dutton supporter in the rolling of Turnbull. It's the mandarins > within Home Affairs or the Police who are telling the government this is > within their capability. As far as I can see, the few submissions > supporting the Bill are from police organisations. > > I think we're beyond Dutton or Hastie caring if the Bill is good for the > nation. They're effectively riding a tiger where they've accused anyone > opposing the Bill to be weak on terrorism. So instead of a sensible public > discussion of how to enable legal intercept for encrypted communications, > we're getting the Liberal Trumpists using the Bill as a blunt object to > wedge Labor on terrorism and that's all that matters. > > Kind regards > > Paul Wilkins > > > On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 at 17:21, Mark Smith <markzzzsm...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri., 23 Nov. 2018, 16:46 Robert Hudson <hud...@gmail.com wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, 23 Nov 2018 at 14:47, Paul Brooks <pbrooks-aus...@layer10.com.au> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 23/11/2018 11:37 AM, Alex Samad wrote: >>>> > Wondering what the implications of this bill and the recent China was >>>> stealing our >>>> > traffic.... >>>> > >>>> > So in theory could china steal / sniff our traffic and because of >>>> these weakening of >>>> > encryption allow china to snope on our stuff >>>> > >>>> > A >>>> In theory no - this bill doesn't weaken encryption, and explicitly >>>> doesn't allow any >>>> changes that would weaken encryption. >>>> >>> >>> They say that - but I don't believe them. I don't think they even >>> understand what they're suggesting (or if they do understand, they're >>> relying on others not understanding, or not caring). >>> >>>> >>>> This bill seeks to bypass encryption entirely by giving the agencies >>>> easier access to >>>> get into devices and the back-end databases of apps and websites, to >>>> see what is >>>> stored in there -bypassing unlock codes, PINS, thumbprint readers etc >>>> on devices for >>>> example. So for traffic being sniffed 'in the middle' the information >>>> is still >>>> sent/received as fully encrypted - and man-in-the-middle snooper won't >>>> see anything. >>>> But if the authorities get hold of your phone or PC, they'll have >>>> easier access to >>>> look into your sent/received message stores and read whats in there, >>>> which is stored >>>> in your device un-encrypted. >>>> >>> >>> The tools the authorities have access to will invariably fall into the >>> hands of others. >>> >> >> >> Or be abused by those who have official access to them. >> >> >> "Queensland in court fight with domestic violence victim whose details >> leaked by policeman" >> >> https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/aug/21/queensland-in-court-fight-with-domestic-violence-victim-whose-details-leaked-by-policeman >> >> >> "NSA SEXINT IS THE ABUSE YOU’VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR" >> >> http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2013/11/nsa-sexint-abuse-you >> ’ve-all-been-waiting >> >> >> >>> >>>> >>>> In practice, if they balls-up the change request given to the device >>>> manufacturer or >>>> app/website developer, anything could happen. >>>> >>> >>> Yep. Aside from the direct ramifications, it's the indirect and >>> unintended consequences that REALLY have the potential to be damaging. >>> >>>> >>>> P. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> AusNOG mailing list >>>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net >>>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> AusNOG mailing list >>> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net >>> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> AusNOG mailing list >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >> >
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