Hi, Sandy,

One more follow-up email, inline, with responses marked as “[CMP]"

> On Aug 28, 2025, at 2:13 AM, Sandy Ginoza <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Alex, All,
> 
> We updated the document and included our followup questions below.  
> 
> The current files are here: 
>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9845.xml
>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9845.txt
>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9845.pdf
>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9845.html
> 
> Diffs of the most recent changes only: 
>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9845-lastdiff.html
>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9845-lastrfcdiff.html (side by side)
> 
> AUTH48 diffs: 
>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9845-auth48diff.html
>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9845-auth48rfcdiff.html (side by side)
> 
> Comprehensive diffs: 
>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9845-diff.html
>   https://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc9845-rfcdiff.html (side by side)
> 
> 
> Again, our comments are noted below with [rfced] and we have cut items that 
> seem to be resolved. 
> 
> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>     • Is it possible for me two include two affiliations for me? Or does it 
>>> need to be only one? Something like this:
>>>             • Category: Informational                                C. 
>>> Pignataro, Ed.
>>> ISSN: 2070-1721                                      NCSU, Blue Fern
>>>             •    Carlos Pignataro (editor)
>>>  North Carolina State University, Blue Fern Consulting
>>>  United States of America
>>>  Email: [email protected], [email protected]
>> 
>> [rfced] Please review the current display and let us know if this is 
>> acceptable.
> 
> We will wait to hear from Carlos on this one. 
> 


[CMP] Thanks, I replied in the other email with a different suggestion.

> 
>> 
>>> 13) <!--[rfced] Regarding "Definitions and Acronyms":
>>> 
>>> 
>>> c) FYI, we removed SNIC from this list because it is not used within this 
>>> document. There is one instance of "SmartNICs"
>>> that remains in the document.
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>>  SNIC:  Smart NIC
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> Re: c) Fine to remove NIC.  Re: single use of Smart NIC, should we remove 
>>> it (same argument as re:13.a)? <Carlos>I prefer to keep SNIC but I am OK if 
>>> removed.
>>> </ALEX>
>> 
>> [rfced] We did not remove SNIC per Carlos’s preference.  Please let us know 
>> if changes are needed. 
>> 
>> <ALEX-2> Right now, the only place where SNIC occurs is in the acronyms, 
>> which seems odd to me. In the interest of not adding to the alphabet soup, 
>> since there is only one time is used, it seems to me that just using Smart 
>> NIC (without adding SNIC ito the list of acronyms) may be preferable, but I 
>> will be go with whatevery your recommendation. 
>> </ALEX-2>   
> 
> [rfced] Our preference is to remove it, since it is not used in this 
> document.  We removed SNIC and changed “SmartNICs” to “Smart NICs” — NIC 
> remains in the list of abbreviations.  Please let us know if any updates are 
> needed. 
> 

[CMP] Removing is OK.

> 
>> 
>>> 14) <!--[rfced] For readability, may this sentence be rephrased as follows?
>>> Specifically, we suggest rephrasing "emphasis needs to be given to 
>>> technology"
>>> and making the sentence into shorter ones.
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>>  As a result, emphasis needs to be given to technology that allows for
>>>  example to (at the device level) exercise very efficient and rapid
>>>  discovery, monitoring, and control of networking resources so that
>>>  they can be dynamically be taken offline or back into service,
>>>  without (at the network level) requiring extensive convergence of
>>>  state across the network or recalculation of routes and other
>>>  optimization problems, and (at the network equipment level) support
>>>  rapid power cycle and initialization schemes. 
>>> 
>>> Perhaps:
>>>  As a result, we should prioritize technology that efficiently
>>>  discovers, monitors, and controls networking resources at the device
>>>  level.  This allows devices to be dynamically taken offline or brought
>>>  back online without extensive network-level state convergence, route
>>>  recalculation, or other complex optimizations.  At the network equipment
>>>  level, it should also support rapid power cycling and initialization.
>>> 
>>> Or:
>>>  Technology that has the following characteristics should be prioritized:
>>>  *  At the device level, it does efficient and rapid discovery, monitoring, 
>>>     and control of networking resources so they can be dynamically taken 
>>>     offline or online.
>>>  *  At the network level, it does not require extensive convergence of 
>>>     state across the network or recalculation of routes and other 
>>>     optimization problems.
>>>  *  At the network equipment level, it supports rapid power cycle and 
>>>     initialization schemes.
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> <ALEX> Agree with breaking up the sentence.  I am not sure about the bullet 
>>> list - prose may be better here and makes less of an implied claim for 
>>> completeness.  Refining things a bit further, how about this:
>>> 
>>>  As a result, emphasis needs to be given to technology that enables, for
>>>  example, very efficient and rapid
>>>  discovery, monitoring, and control of networking resources.  
>>>  This allows devices to be dynamically taken offline or brought
>>>  back online without extensive network-level state convergence, route
>>>  recalculation, or other complex optimizations at the network level.  
>>>  To facilitate such schemes, rapid power cycle and initialization schemes 
>>> should be supported at the device level. 
>>> 
>>> </ALEX>
>> 
>> [rfced] Updated per Alex’s reply, but we wonder if “emphasis" should be 
>> “priority"? 
>> 
>> <ALEX-2> I am fine with either one, whichever you prefer. I would not want 
>> to imply that other technology should be deprioritized, hence the preference 
>> given to "emphasis", but both are okay. </ALEX-2>
> 
> [rfced] Thanks for the explanation.  Based on this “priority” sounds wrong, 
> but giving emphasis also reads oddly.  Perhaps "emphasis needs to be placed 
> on technology that enables, … “?  

[CMP] “placing emphasis” is the best alternative. Thank you for suggesting it! 
Please use “emphasis needs to be placed on …”


> 
> 
> 
>>> 23) <!--[rfced] Will the term "right-placing" be clear to the reader?
>>> It has not been used before in the RFC series and does not appear in 
>>> the dictionary. It appears twice in this document, as follows.
>>> Please consider whether the term should be replaced or explained, as 
>>> follows or otherwise.
>>> 
>>> Section 6.1:
>>>  there are opportunities in right-placing functionality in the network.
>>> 
>>> Section 7: 
>>>  ..., right-placing of computational intelligence, ...
>>> 
>>> Perhaps:
>>> 
>>> S6.1: there are opportunities for "right-placing" functionality, i.e., 
>>> ensuring that it is in the most suitable location for optimal effectiveness.
>>> [or]
>>>  there are opportunities for deliberate placement of functionality
>>>  within the network.
>>> 
>>> S7:  ensuring the most suitable placement of computational 
>>> intelligence within the network design
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> <ALEX> I think the term "right-placing" is fairly well known and I think 
>>> the subsequent sentence in 6.1 explains it.  That being said, we can of 
>>> course expand the text further.    
>>> 
>>> For 6.1:
>>> 
>>> Original:
>>>  Likewise, there are opportunities in right-placing functionality in the 
>>> network.  An example concerns placement of virtualized network functions in 
>>> carbon-optimized ways - for example, cohosted on fewer servers in close 
>>> proximity to each other in order to avoid unnecessary overhead in 
>>> long-distance control traffic. 
>>> 
>>> Perhaps: 
>>>  Likewise, there are opportunities in right-placing functionality in the 
>>> network, i.e. place functionality in a way that minimizes energy usage 
>>> without compromising other aspects of that functionality (such as 
>>> performance or utility).  An example concerns placement of virtualized 
>>> network functions in carbon-optimized ways. For example, virtualized 
>>> network functions can be cohosted on fewer servers to achieve higher server 
>>> utilization, which is more effective from an energy and carbon perspective 
>>> than larger numbers of servers with lower utilization.  Likewise, they can 
>>> be placed in close proximity to each other in order to avoid unnecessary 
>>> overhead in long-distance control traffic. 
>>> 
>>> For 7: maybe expand slightly, such as: 
>>> 
>>>  ensuring the most suitable placement of computational intelligence 
>>> and network functionality within the network design
>>> 
>>> </ALEX>
>> 
>> 
>> [rfced] Carlos replied the following to question 38 (inclusive language): 
>> 
>> <Carlos>Yes, please replace "right-placing" (there are, I believe, two 
>> instances) with something using "correct”.
>> 
>> We updated the text with a mix of these suggested updates.  Please review 
>> and let us know what updates are needed. 
>> 
>> <ALEX-2> 
>> I don't think "right-placing" has the same meaning as "correct".  It is not 
>> that other placements are incorrect.  They are less desirable and arguable 
>> less elegant from a holistic perspective, but they are not "incorrect".  So, 
>> I don't think "correct" is the right term here that catches what we need and 
>> this needs to be updated.  
>> 
>> So, I do believe "right-placing" is a more accurate term and I am not sure 
>> why that would be considered offensive by anyone.  That said, if you want to 
>> replace it, fine, but we need a better alternative. Perhaps "Smart-placing" 
>> (I have never seen this used - but the meaning is clear, even if not an 
>> established term)?  
>> 
>> </ALEX-2>
> 
> [rfced] Please discuss amongst the authors and let us know how/if 
> “right-placing” should be updated.  We suggest an update for clarity, as we 
> do not easily find a definition for this term.   A browser search for 
> “right-placing” is not helpful; a search for “right-placing functionality” 
> leads to an AI definition that seems to apply, but the only actual hits are 
> for this document.  
> Perhaps it is an area-specific term or an emerging term.  We wonder about 
> updating the text to something like “there are opportunities to identify the 
> most suitable location for functionality in the network…”.
> 

[CMP] I strongly prefer not to use ‘right-placing’ — makes me think of 
left-placing :-) 
[CMP] "there are opportunities to identify the most suitable location for 
functionality in the network” is the best one yet. 
[CMP] But we can discuss and re-confirm.

> 
> 
>> 
>>> 35) <!-- [rfced] We found the following URL for [Telefonica2021]; 
>>> would you like to add it or a different URL to this reference?
>>> 
>>> https://www.telefonica.com/en/shareholders-investors/financial-reports
>>> /historical-archive-annual-reports/2021/
>>> 
>>> Current:
>>>  [Telefonica2021]
>>>             Telefonica, "Telefonica Consolidated Annual Report 2021",
>>>             2021.
>>> -->
>>> 
>>> <ALEX>
>>> Actual, we would like to point to the most recent report, which is 2024:
>>> https://www.telefonica.com/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2025/03/conso
>>> lidated-management-report.pdf
>>> 
>>> 
>>> <Carlos>Actually, I disagree here. It is important to point to an earlier / 
>>> the FIRST time the Telefónica Annual Report included this. We can *also* 
>>> include 2024, but can we please revert back to including 2021 as well? 
>>> Thanks!!!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The number we are referencing from the report (which can be found now on 
>>> page 99) has changed.  As a result, the following should be changed in the 
>>> text: 
>>> Original:
>>>  For example, in its annual report, Telefónica reports that in 2021, its 
>>> network's energy consumption per PB of data amounted to 54MWh 
>>> [Telefonica2021].
>>> 
>>> New:
>>>  For example, in its annual report, Telefónica reports that in 2024, its 
>>> network's energy consumption per PB of data amounted to 38 MWh 
>>> [Telefonica2021].
>>> 
>>> </ALEX>
>> 
>> [rfced] Please let us know the outcome of this discussion.  
>> 
>> <ALEX-2> Carlos and I have had multiple iterations over email; the latest 
>> proposal as it stands is as follows.  Carlos has not yet  confirmed his 
>> acceptance but not sent a counterproposal either so I am guessing we are 
>> getting close.  Perhaps we can incorporate it for now, and Carlos please let 
>> Sandy know if you want a further change and/or if we need more time to 
>> resolve.  So, FWIW, this is where things stand:
>> 
>> We would like to actually replace the orginal reference with the most 
>> current one: [Telefonica2024] Telefonica, "Telefonica Consolidated Annual 
>> Report 2024", 
>> https://www.telefonica.com/en/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2025/03/consolidated-management-report.pdf
>> 
>> The number we are referencing from the report (which can be found now on 
>> page 99) has changed.  As a result, we would like to also update the text 
>> that follows accordingly.  We believe that there is value in comparing this 
>> most current number which numbers that were reported earlier all the way 
>> back to 2015 in the 2020 version of the report, which we would therefore 
>> like to reference as well (in addition to the 2024 version).   The reference 
>> for this is as follows:
>> 
>> [Telefonica2020] Telefonica, "Telefonica Consolidated Annual Report 2020", 
>> https://www.telefonica.com/en/shareholders-investors/financial-reports/historical-archive-annual-reports/2020/
>>   
>> 
>> With this, the following should be changed in the text: 
>> 
>> Current:
>>      For example, in its annual report, Telefónica reports that in 2021, its 
>> network's energy consumption per petabyte (PB) of data amounted to 54 
>> megawatt-hours (MWh) <xref target="Telefonica2021"/>. This rate has been 
>> dramatically decreasing (by a factor of seven over six years), although 
>> gains in efficiency are being offset by simultaneous growth in data volume. 
>> The same report states that an important corporate goal is continuing on 
>> that trajectory and aggressively reducing overall carbon emissions further.
>> 
>> New:
>>      For example, in its annual report, Telefónica reports that in 2024, its 
>> network's energy consumption per PB of data amounted to 38 MWh 
>> [Telefonica2024]. This rate has been dramatically improving from values that 
>> were reported for earlier years, for example 115MWh/PB in 2019 or 400 MWh/PB 
>> in 2015 [Telefonica 2020].  While portions of the gains in efficiency are 
>> being offset by simultaneous growth in data volume, Telefónica states that 
>> an important corporate goal is continuing on that trajectory and 
>> aggressively reducing overall greenhouse gas emissions further.  
>> 
>> One question regarding the references.  The annual reports are published 
>> early in the following year, i.e. the 2024 report is actually published in 
>> 2025.  However, it is probably less confusing to use (e.g.) 
>> "[Telefonica2024]" instead of "[Telefonica2025]".  
>> </ALEX-2>
> 
> [rfced] We have updated the text as described above for now.  We await 
> further guidance or confirmation that the current text is agreeable.

[CMP] Still discussing and will confirm ASAP.

Thanks!

Carlos.

> 
> "[Telefonica2024]" instead of "[Telefonica2025]” — we updated to 
> [Telefonica2024], as it makes sense to us.  However, we’re looking at general 
> guidance on this and will circle back as needed. 
> 
> Thanks,
> Sandy Ginoza
> RFC Production Center
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alexander Clemm <[email protected]> 
>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 11:10 PM
>> To: 'Sandy Ginoza' <[email protected]>; 'Carlos Pignataro' 
>> <[email protected]>
>> Cc: 'Alexander Clemm' <[email protected]>; 'RFC Editor' 
>> <[email protected]>; '[email protected]' <[email protected]>; 
>> '[email protected]' <[email protected]>; 
>> '[email protected]' <[email protected]>; '[email protected]' 
>> <[email protected]>; '[email protected]' <[email protected]>; 
>> '[email protected]' <[email protected]>; 
>> '[email protected]' <[email protected]>
>> Subject: RE: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9845 <draft-irtf-nmrg-green-ps-06> for your 
>> review
>> 
>> Hi Sandy,
>> thank you for your update!  Carlos and I are still in the process of 
>> discussing the response to item #35 and may send you another update for that 
>> section once we receive your updated file.   Please note that I will be 
>> traveling from this Friday (Aug 29) through Tuesday (Sep 9) so it would be 
>> great if you could ideally send an updated file by EOB Wednesday that will 
>> allow me to turn it around prior to my departure.  
>> Thank you and kind regards
>> --- Alex
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sandy Ginoza <[email protected]> 
>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2025 7:39 PM
>> To: Carlos Pignataro <[email protected]>
>> Cc: Alexander Clemm <[email protected]>; Alexander Clemm <[email protected]>; 
>> RFC Editor <[email protected]>; [email protected]; 
>> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; 
>> [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: AUTH48: RFC-to-be 9845 <draft-irtf-nmrg-green-ps-06> for your 
>> review
>> 
>> Greetings all,
>> 
>> Thank you for your replies — we are working on an updated file to share with 
>> you.  In the meantime, here’s some info about whether this is the first 
>> document about green/sustainable networking.  
>> 
>>> @RFC Editor , first, please find three questions/comments:
>>>     • Could you please confirm that this is the first RFC being published 
>>> about green/sustainable networking?
>> 
>> A grep for “green” and “sustainability” included the following: 
>> 
>> RFC 9657 (Time-Variant Routing (TVR) Use Cases) mentions green computing.  
>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9657.html
>> 
>> RFC 9307 (Report from the IAB Workshop on Analyzing IETF Data (AID) 2021) 
>> has a section on Environmental Sustainability.
>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9307.html#section-2.5
>> 
>> RFC 9547 (Report from the IAB Workshop on Environmental Impact of Internet 
>> Applications and Systems, 2022) talks about sustainability.
>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc9547.html
>> 
>> This is not an exhaustive list, but these RFCs seemed the most relevant.  
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Sandy Ginoza
>> RFC Production Center
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

-- 
auth48archive mailing list -- [email protected]
To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]

Reply via email to