I've un-subbed your email ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) -- dims
On 10/28/05, McPhail, Jeff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I must say that I'm also extremely disappointed with Axis and > this usergroup. I didn't like the fact that you have to sign up to > receive ALL emails in order to participate -- I've never seen this > before. So because I was in a jam and needed and answer, I joined and > asked my question. I posted the question 5 times in different forms over > a 3 week period and didn't get one response -- nothing. > So I then tried to unsubscribe and it didn't work. I followed > the instructions in the auto-reply given for troubleshooting > unsubscribes and that didn't work. So I emailed the administrator (his > email was in the autoreply, but of course nowhere to be found on the > axis site) and got a reply about 3 days later telling me that the reason > that my unsubscribe didn't work was because my email address was not on > the list. So I responded assuring him that I am still on the list and am > getting hundreds of messages a week (to my work email mind you) and I > added a copy of the email header of one of the list emails I received > with my email return path etc. -- I got no response. Also since the > sender in the list emails is not axis-user@ws.apache.org but instead the > individual senders address, I can't even mark them as spam to filter > them (not a very smart setup, not to mention the privacy issues). This > is becoming a real nuisance and it appears that I have no recourse. I've > tried emailing the general Apache help and got no response, and of > course there is not a single phone number on the either the apache or > axis web sites. > This is bush league support. No wonder so many people prefer to > use Microsoft products. Maybe not all of their solutions are optimal > (although I'm not sure how true this is anymore) but everything is much > easier to implement, and interconnect with different technologies under > the Microsoft umbrella. And when you have a problem, the support sites > available are much superior -- I've never posted an issue about a > microsoft product where I didn't have it solved within a day or two. The > open source concept is great when you're a student and can't afford to > fork over a grand or two for software, but when you use it for business > apps and factor in the time to implement and the extra tens of thousands > of dollars in man hours per year to fix bugs, Microsoft is a much > cheaper solution. > > I would be extremely grateful to anyone to can tell me how to get off of > this list. Thank you. > > Cheers, > > Jeff. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Grillo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 10:15 AM > To: axis-user@ws.apache.org > Cc: axis-dev@ws.apache.org > Subject: RE: I give up > > I would like to add that, to a large extent, I feel Kurt's pain. We > used Axis 1.2 to deploy a single SOAP service that was required of us by > one of our major partners that dictated a .NET interface complete with > SOAP element signature, timestamp, and encryption. I will say that we > got this working very nicely. I am appreciative of the work. I will > say that my interactions with the WSS4J folks was extremely helpful, and > I thank them very much. So, that is a great success and I thank > everybody that contributed. > > Now as I look to go a little more mainstream within the rest of our > products at our company, I began taking a closer look at Axis, including > java data binding dependencies which are critical because of the various > products our company produces that will need to adhere to the bound XSD > Objects. I need to insure that I have some independence when choosing > this piece of the puzzle. > > I have looked at AXIS and AXIS2. I have had a few questions related to > this. My major frustration is as my inability to get answers to what I > thought were fairly simple questions. Perhaps they are either not > simple, or thought as stupid. I'm not talking just about zeroing in on > a bug and submitting it to JIRA, I'm talking about some input about even > "whether" something is doable, not just how. > > Now before anybody comes down on me, I am fully aware of where my > expectations should be vis a vis open source software, mailing lists, > etc. I do not feel that I am owed anything when using this software. I > have found, however, a little more help in other areas when using open > source. I have, in fact, solved a myriad of problems on my own within > Axis. I find myself in the bowels of the code trying to figure out what > it's doing etc, so to solve my own problems. I do, however, have to > factor in the time spent to research and solve these issues. > > I have posted several questions and generally do not even get a > response, or an I don't know, though I suppose the lack of a response is > an I don't know. So, it's gotten to the point where I don't bother. In > terms of Axis, I feel that I need to go in another direction simply > because of my inability to get a straight answer around data binding > support (for example) now or in the future in Axis or in Axis2. I have > asked what I believe is a simple question, whether a particular class > that seems like it should be thread safe is so (just another example). > Generally speaking if somebody asked me about most any class I've > designed and built as to whether it was designed that way, I could come > up with an answer. Yet, no answer. Yes, yes, if a class is not > advertised as Threadsafe, consider that it isn't. Lack of > documentation, however, doesn't confirm the default assumption. > > But my bigger concern is the unknown. I don't have confidence that when > and if I run into future problems I can find the resources or help to > get around problems. Perhaps my expectations are much too high. Of > other products that we use and have had very good success is Hibernate, > Castor, WSS4J (as mentioned above). I just don't get a comfortable > feeling when working with Axis ... > > Okay, I'm big enough for somebody to tell me to not let the door hit me > in the you know where as I leave. Again, I'm not angry, I'm not even > largely disappointed. I've just been forced to make a decision based on > what is... > > Perhaps in awhile I'll return to see what's up with Axis2. > > -paul > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 11:07 PM > To: axis-user@ws.apache.org > Cc: axis-dev@ws.apache.org > Subject: Re: I give up > > Kurt, > > Looking at your postings, i don't see much from you in terms of engaging > the user or developer community to ask for help. > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&w=2&r=1&s=olsen&q=b > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&w=2&r=1&s=olsen&q=b > > Your specific email to Tom > (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&m=112801670512125&w=2)...i > have no clue how to help. i did reply back to a prev mail on that thread > (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-dev&m=112692662128194&w=2) > > If you have a problem with Macromedia or eBay folks, We can't really > help. If you have a problem with latest releases of Axis, we can help if > you add JIRA bugs (and chase us!) on the axis-dev@ list. If you need > production/development support, there are avenues for that as well. > > Am sorry you had a bad experience, thanks for the feedback. > > -- dims > > On 10/27/05, Kurt Olsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Folks, I hate to say it but I had to ditch axis. Way too difficult. > And we > > won't be using it in the future. > > > > > > > > Our application has approx 30 vendors we communicate with using SOAP. > > > > Approx 25 of them are implemented by simply creating strings and > firing them > > off, then parsing out the reply. > > > > Primitive but fairly easy to do. > > > > > > > > The other 5 used axis. At the moment we're using the ColdFusion > server. When > > we upgraded to java 5 and coldfusion mx7 our axis based connectors > broke. > > > > It took approximately 2 weeks to diagnose and 'solve' the problem. > Axis used > > commons-logging, and commons-logging broke. That required fairly > > > > major surgery to the coldfusion classpath. Pieces of commons-logging > we're > > coming in off of different classloaders. > > > > > > > > So technically speaking, commons-logging broke - not axis > but.....since axis > > brought the flaw to life, and has given us grief (probably the CF > > integration) in the past, it is axis that got the bad reputation due > to the > > fact that it was at the top of the food chain. The two weeks solving > this > > problem wasn't totally wasted because it exposed a fairly large flaw > in the > > overall architecture. > > > > > > > > After getting the existing connectors to work again, I had to turn my > > attention to the next connector in the pipeline - eBay via Soap.... > > > > Only one problem - eBay's sdk is written against java 1.4 and axis 1.1 > - > > while we upgraded to java 5 and axis 1.2 > > > > After another week of trying various 'workarounds' etc I was forced to > give > > up and will have to communicate with eBay using the "create strings" > > technique. > > > > > > > > Bottom line is that the overall cost of the 'SOAP' system and it's > co-horts > > in crime is un-managable given our quarterly release cycle. > > > > I'm disappointed that after all that effor to modernize - the goal > really > > wasn't accomplished. > > > > > > > > I fully understand the various issues involved, most of which aren't > really > > axis's fault but - any way I slice it this entire exercise felt > exactly like > > trying to use the J2EE 1.3/1.4 ejb specifications. Big, confusing, > hard to > > use etc.....And I predict will eventually be abandoned (or at least > buried > > beneath a convienence API). > > > > > > > > This is just one co's experience of course but I submit to you that as > you > > continue your development you might want to consider the overall > 'cost' that > > SOAP and it's tools are exacting on the community. This simply has to > get > > easier because as it stands both the other developers (who watched > over my > > shoulder so to speak) and myself have simply given up on an 'easy' > tool fix. > > Our experience is that SOAP is a diaster and costing virtually > everyone in > > corporate programming a lot of money and lost sleep.... > > > > > > > > Thanks for listening, and please remember that I'm taking the time to > write > > this not to complain (well, maybe a little) but to provide feedback > from the > > field. > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > Kurt Olsen > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/ > > > > > ************************************************************** > This message, including any attachments, contains confidential information > intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If > you are not the intended recipient, please contact sender immediately by > reply e-mail and destroy all copies. You are hereby notified that any > disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any > action based on it, is strictly prohibited. > TIAA-CREF > ************************************************************** > > -- Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
