Thanks very much for this information…helps a lot to understand the Obits of many of my relatives. John, do you know the answer to my other question about the money? A reis, Vinten and a Tostoes? What their values were and perhaps what that would translate into todays currency?
Gordon > On Mar 5, 2017, at 6:39 PM, aportugee via Azores Genealogy > <azores@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Very informative. Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. > > Sam (Mazatlán, MX) > > From: 'Susan Murphy' via Azores Genealogy <mailto:azores@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, March 5, 2017 6:12 PM > To: azores@googlegroups.com <mailto:azores@googlegroups.com> > Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] ST Francis habits > > Gordon (and John too), > I knew that I had saved some information about burials and went looking deep > into my computer.So here is a posting from 13 years ago and low and > behold….it was John who answered then:) Here is what he said way back when! > Susan > > From: <marra...@cs.com <mailto:marra...@cs.com>> > To: <azore...@rootsweb.com <mailto:azore...@rootsweb.com>> > Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 4:14 PM > Subject: Re: [AZORES] Azorean Death Records > In a message dated 9/14/2004 3:30:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > uberlin...@aol.com <mailto:uberlin...@aol.com> writes: > On the death records it often describes what the person wears....sometimes > it says a black shroud, or a white shroud. But most often it says they wore > a habit of picote....which I see means coarse cloth....and this habit will > be of "Sao Francisco" or "Nossa Senhora do Carmo" or of the "Irmadade do > Carmo"....Brotherhood of Carmo? > Most of the people into the early 1800's were buried in the church. Do > you think they were buried in coffins? Does anyone know the significance of > these clothes they wore? > > Then it usually will say that they are accompanied by the Irmadade das > Almas....Brotherhood of Souls and "o Colegio" and "Cruzes"......crosses? > What does this mean.....is this symbolic ...that they are joining other > departed > souls?? if so, then what are the Colegio and Cruzes? > It will say that a family member is obligated to have said a certain > number of masses. Does this mean that the person left money for that to give > to > the priest? Or does it mean that the person who is obligated should attend > that number of masses? I ask this as so often it would say that they were > poor and did not leave a testament, but then there will be someone who is > obigated to > have the masses said. Sometimes the masses are "rezadas" and sometimes > "oficial and I don't know what that means. I have seen a couple that say > there was > "cantoria"....so I assume there was singing? Almost ALWAYS they were > buried the next day after death. I have found very few exceptions to this > and in > those cases, the person seemed to have accidental deaths and probably were > not > found right away....one had drowned and others were found on the rocks. > > I wonder how ALL these people could have been buried in the church?? I > would think it would create quite an odor at times? I have heard that in the > Azores they used to put "lime" on the bodies to help the decomposition. > I know in the last century, when the burials were in cemeteries and no > longer in > the churches, I have heard that they dug up the bodies after a certain > number > of years? Maybe seven? And then the bones are put in a bone collection > crypt?? > I know this is a macabre subject, but I have been working with these > records for so long that this questions keep cropping up! I would appreciate > anyones knowledge on this. > From JOHN: > > In another, more pious age, our Azorean ancestors worried a lot about > > their > > eternal salvation and the peril to their immortal souls. Thus they usually > > engaged in pious acts and rituals in an attempt to mitigate the suffering > > that a > > soul in purgatory would have to under go before achieving Paradise. Many > > of the > > Villages had lay orders and brotherhoods. The "Carmos" and "Franciscanos" > > were the Franciscan and Carmelite lay orders. When their members died, > > they were > > buried in the habits of Franciscan and Carmelites. Thus "foi enterrado no > > hábito de S. Francisco..." The brotherhoods, such as the Irmandade das > > Almas, (The > > Brotherhood of the Poor Souls) existed so that the brotherhood arranged to > > (1) accompany the deceased to burial, (2) arrange for masses to be offered > > annually for the repose of deceased members and (3) living members would > > pray for > > the repose of the deceased members. The Irmandade dos Caixões, (the > > Brotherhood > > of the Coffins) was a predecessor to the "Benevolent Associations" whereby > > one prepaid one's funeral; i.e., you paid your annual dues and when you > > died you > > were supplied with a coffin. > > > > As for the obligation of the family to have a certain number of masses > > offered for the repose of the deceased, that was a testamentary > > obligation. In other > > words, the deceased left his estate to his children on condition that they > > arranged for a certain numbers of Masses to be offered for the repose of > > the > > testator's soul. You can usually tell how well off someone was by the > > number of > > Masses they arranged for themselves. > > > > The "Ofício" is the Office or Divine Liturgy, the prayers that every > > priest > > is still required to say daily, morning, noon, evening and night. A priest > > could recite the Office for the Dead, or offer his daily office, for the > > repose of > > the deceased. > > > > "Cantoria" would mean a sung high Mass (those of us born before Vatican II > > know what that means: the priest sang the Mass as opposed to mumbling it > > in > > Latin). > > > > Until the time of the Marquês de Pombal, the deceased were interred > > beneath > > the floors of the parish church. Prominent families had reserved graves; > > thus > > someone might be buried in his grandfather's grave, beneath the chapel of > > Our > > Lady of Sorrows, etc. (It is a wonderful way to research dead ends; i.e. > > you > > can't find s birth or marriage record but you find a death records that > > says the > > deceased was buried in the grave of her grandfather, Afonso Ledo). After 7 > > years, the graves were recycled. Lime was used liberally to assist in > > decomposition. In village cemeteries today, graves are still recycled and > > lime is still > > liberally applied. The adage "já levou a sua camada de cal." (He' s gotten > > his > > dose of lime.) is a way of saying that someone has died and is already > > buried. > > > > As for shrouds, the saddest example I have is that of an ancestor whom the > > neighbors "wrapped in the sheet on which she died because she was so poor > > she > > had no clothes in which to be laid out." I can only hope those same > > compassionate neighbors said a Pater and an Ave for the repose of her soul > > and remembered > > her at Mass. > > > > The subject may be morbid, but perfectly natural. On my trips to S. Miguel > > I > > always walk the Cemetery of S. Joaquim in Ponta Delgada. Sometimes I see > > an > > exhumation, i.e. the removal of some bones into an ossuary and I've been > > greeted > > by more than one smile (or grimace) of a skull inadvertently left exposed > > in > > an open grave. I'll bet Susan Vargas Murphy asked questions that many > > people > > have but have been too afraid to ask. And many thanks to Eloise Cadinha > > for > > opening the door. > > > > John Miranda Raposo > > > > > On Mar 5, 2017, at 4:04 PM, 'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy > <azores@googlegroups.com <mailto:azores@googlegroups.com>> wrote: > > Gordon, > > Roman Catholics believe that the sentences of souls to purgatory can be > shortened by Masses arranged to be offered on their behalf as well as good > works (corporal and spiritual works of mercy) done on their behalf. I do not > think there is another way of explaining it. So, if your father dies, > recognizing that he was not perfect and that his soul might be languishing in > purgatory waiting for release, you might arrange for Masses to be offered for > his release from purgatory and you might feed the poor, clothe the naked, > give drink to the thirsty, care for the sick, give shelter to the homeless, > etc, etc, etc, on his behalf in order to shorten his stay in purgatory. > > John Miranda Raposo > > On Sunday, March 5, 2017 6:45 PM, Gordon Soares <gs...@centurylink.net > <mailto:gs...@centurylink.net>> wrote: > > > I wonder if anyone knows the significance of being buried in the habit of St. > Francis in the 1600-1800 burials. It is often said that the person was > carried to the grave in the habit of St Francis lead by the priest and the > Friars of St. Francis. > The person often had a will and indicated that they would like 30 masses for > their soul and maybe 20 masses for their ‘intention”. Can someone tell me > what ws meant by “intention”? > > I know I have written this before but its a detail that continues to “bug me” > and someone out there can help me put it to rest. :) > > Gordon > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > <mailto:unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores > <https://groups.google.com/group/azores>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores > <https://groups.google.com/group/azores>. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores > <https://groups.google.com/group/azores>. > > > > <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores > <https://groups.google.com/group/azores>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group. 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