On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 10:16:22 -0600, Mark A. Foster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, Gilberto,
> At 12:14 AM 12/13/2004, you wrote:
> >>First she wants to get the ingedients in one place, and then she wants to
> >>make the batter, and then she wants to grease the pans, and then she wants
> >>to pour the batter in the pan, and then she wants to make the frosting.etc.
> >>" but then from another perspective, its the constant unchanging will of
> >>the chef to make a cake. And if you understand that, you can see how God's
> >>will never changed.<<
Mark:
> Well, we might have different perspectives on this subject. I would not want
> to go as far as the openness theists ("hyper-Arminians"), who say that God
> can change His mind because He does not know the future, but I would never
> place limitations on God's options. As Susan Maneck is fond of quoting, "He
> doeth whatsoever He willeth."
Gilberto:
I'm not sure why you are assuming "He doesth whatsoever He willeth"
would preclude God's will from being constant. If we really do believe
that God can do what He wants then why wouldn't that include the
possibility of having a constant will? Or a Perennial Philosophy or a
Last Prophet or whatever. He doeth whatsover he willeth.
Gilberto:
> >>I understand your examples and thought along similar lines. That's why I
> >>specifically said murder, not just killing. Actually murder might be
> >>defined as unlawful killing so maybe its even a tautology that murder is
> >>wrong.<<
Mark:
> I think so. Murder is whatever people say is murder. For instance, it is
> fairly common, at least in the U.S., that a person charged with murder may be
> allowed by the prosecutor to plea bargain down to manslaughter.
Gilberto:
But does that really mean the definition of murder is really flexible?
I've always thought that on some level people still realize that
plea-bargaining is cynical and dishonest in some respects. It involves
a loss of integrity in exchange for convenience, efficiency on the
government side and managing risk on the accused person's side.
Gilberto:
> >>Do you think the belief in the divinity of Christ or the Sonship of Christ
> >>is also shirk?<<
Mark:
> I think that a belief in the Deity, not divinity, of Christ (in the context
> of the Trinity) may be shirk. For example, I would have no problem saying
> that "Christ is God," but I mean by it that Christ manifests, or reflects,
> God. He is not on the same level as the divine Essence.
Mark:
> Honestly, given my tendency to minimize the importance of orthodoxy, I am
> somewhat uncomfortable discussing shirk. However, I regard christology (or
> prophetology) as an aspect of the Covenant, and, in that sense, I consider it
> to be an element of orthopraxy, not orthodoxy.
Gilberto:
I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean that christo-logy or in
general theo-logy is not a matter of ontology but more a matter of
what the tongue chooses to say or not say, so it is more a matter of
practice?
> >>I forget if I've talked to you about this before. I would have thought that
> >>the elephant is God.<<
>
> You mean Ganesha? ;-) No, I was using the term to refer to a particular
> divine Revelation.
>
No. There is the famous (So I thought) fable of the blind men who had
heard of an elephant but they'd never seen one (since they were blind)
so they had someone take them to an elephant and the felt different
parts of the animal and then argued among themselves about what an
elephant was really like. "An Elephant is sharp and pointy" "No an
elephant is shaped like a big wall" "No an elephant is shaped like a
tree trunk" "No an elephant is shaped like a rope" etc. There is one
elephant but the blind men experienced different parts of it, which
they thought was the whole thing.
And what I would suggest is that the apparent disagreements among
different religions might be resolved in a similar way and at the end
of things we might be allowed to "see" and everything will make sense.
Peace
Gilberto
"My people are hydroponic"
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