On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 23:14:01 -0000, Khazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear Gilberto Simpson > Today in your letter on the net > http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43095.html > you write:***** > To be honest, for me it isn't about liking or disliking the concept. I'm not > saying that Islam is better just because there is this concept of al-insaan > al-kamil. I guess what I would want to point out and get across is that > 1. It shouldn't be surprising if certain concepts which come out of Islam, > especially tas.awwuf are also carried over into the Bahai Faith. > Parts of the Bahai Faith are clear derivative or based on Islam, especially > Sufism. Khazeh: > Me [kf] humbly would add: > Yes in the sense that as Baha'u'llah reveals: the Manifestations of God > :"They all abide in the same tabernacle, soar in the same heaven, are seated > upon the same throne, UTTER THE SAME SPEECH, AND PROCLAIM THE SAME FAITH." > Of course in this sense we are in agreement. The only thing is that as a > Bahai this one would add:**** The Bahai Faith is now increasingly > demonstrating its right to be recognized, not as one more religious system > superimposed on the conflicting creeds which for so many generations have > divided mankind and darkened its fortunes, but rather as a restatement of > the eternal verities underlying all the religions of the past, as a unifying > force instilling into the adherents of these religions a new spiritual > vigour, infusing them with a new hope and love for mankind, firing them with > a new vision of fundamental unity of their religious doctrines, and > unfolding to their eyes the glorious destiny that awaits the human race. I'm sorry for saying it this way, but I don't think the Bahai faith can help but be one more religion which enters into the mix. The fact that you say that the previous shariahs have all been abrogated first by the Bab and then by Bahaullah means you aren't accepting the validity of those other religions as they are. If you want to promote unity among various religions then maybe you can participate in interfaith or ecumenical events with people of other faiths and try to promote attitudes of respect and tolerance towards other religions. But once you include the particularly Bahai claims about the station of Bahaullah or alleigance to the Covenant then you become a particular faith. > The fundamental principle enunciated by Bahá'u'lláh, the followers of His > Faith firmly believe, is that Religious truth is not absolute but relative, I think that this idea can promote unity. > that Divine Revelation is a continuous and progressive process, But then once you say that religions are "progressive" then you end up ranking the religions according to how old they are and you can't help but insult the religions which came before. that all the > great religions of the world are divine in origin, that their basic > principles are in complete harmony, that their aims and purposes are one and > the same, that their teachings are but facets of one truth, that their > functions are complementary, that they differ only in the non-essential > aspects of their doctrines and that their missions represent successive > stages in the spiritual evolution of human society.*** I think for it to work, you REALLY have to believe that the differences between the various religions are non-essential. I think that's the hard part for alot of people, including Bahais. > > IN YOUR SECOND POINT dear Gilberto Simpson you write: > > GS > 2. Muslims aren't necessarily "tying up the hands of God" by saying > prophethood is over. And aren't necessarily saying that God is silent now. > Or that human beings have nothing to do now. On the contrary, there are many > different other kinds of non-prophetic individuals who are "sent" who > function to guide, warn, revive, reform and inform human beings after the > prophet Muhammad. > > This servant [khazeh] would add if God is not silent as you rightly say, is > it not becoming, is it not incumbent on us to look at dispassionately at the > Revelation of so many texts that Baha'u'llah has revealed [the Iqan, the > Bisharat, the Taraazat, the Tajalliyyat, the Ishraqat, the Epistle to Shaykh > Muhammad Taqi, the Hidden Words, the Seven Valleys, the Tablet to the > Christians, and the Summons of the Lord to all the Kings and Rulers] Remember before how I was saying that if you investigate all the religions in that way you would literally never finish? And if you went in reverse alphabetical order then I would take several lifetimes to get to the Bahai faith. That's okay if reincarnation is true, but if it isn't then I'll just have to hope that God is merciful and will understand. And think about it this way. If the Bahai faith is right, then the situation is even more complicated because then the Buddha, Zoroaster, Krishna, Jesus, Moses, the Bab, and Muhammad are all Manifestations. And there are 7 whole religions based on their teachings which are in certain respects different from the Bahai faith. And those other religions are each in their own way especially "tempting" because they were actually founded by someone who came from God (according to the Bahai perspective). But if any one of those religions is correct (in the ordinary sense) then the Bahai faith is false. > You are absolutely right. God is not silent. It is only that perhaps > currently you have perused the writings of the Sufi leaders [which is > absolutely wonderful and great] but this your correspondent has read all the > above repeatedly and the Sufi books. What do you mean by "all the above"? You have read all the writings of all the awliya in Islamic history? Then you certainly must read fast. For me, all those texts are an Ocean and I'm an ant trying to swim in them. I could just stick with the Quran and the "Sufi books" and that would be plenty for me to think about and meditate on before even getting to the Bahai writings. > > You then write dear Gilberto > 3. More generally, if you really look at Sufism and realize that it is a > living part of Islam, and really appreciate its function, then I think it is > alot harder for Bahais to make the case that Islam (in the sense of > following the Quran, and sunnah, and the Shariah conveyed by Muhammad) is > finished, or expired, or no longer relevant. > I would reply with respect and humility: This is your position now. You love > God, you love Sufi piety, and PERENNIALISM and TRADITIONALISM. > I respect that. I can never oust that love from your heart [from your qalb > from your fu'ad from your soul] > On the whole my understanding is that Bahá'ís are not to oust any truth from > peoples' hearts: > Our sacred Writings say: > *** The Faith standing identified with the name of Baha'u'llah disclaims any > intention to belittle any of the Prophets gone before Him, to whittle down > any of their teachings, to obscure, however slightly, the radiance of their > Revelations, TO OUST THEM FROM THE HEARTS OF THEIR FOLLOWERS, to abrogate > the fundamentals of their doctrines, to discard any of their revealed Books, > or to suppress the legitimate aspirations of their adherents > *** > But in the case of Islam, the finality of prophethood and the continuing validity of the shariah are precisely some of the fundamentals of the doctrines. > Khazeh: > > The SECOND POINT > > Is that once the Manifestation is recognized His Teaching His AMR [His > > Cause] specifically has to be implemented > For me, one of the interesting things about Sufism is that the > Tariqats aren't just a monarchy with a single line imposed on > everyone. The Tariqats form a kind of family tree. For example, most > tariqats have silsilas which go through Ali (ra) but the Naqshbandis go > through Abu Bakr. And that's ok. Sometimes the teacher had more than one > student so the branches fork. And that's ok. Members of one > tariqat are supposed to have good adab (manners) towards members of another. > They don't say "your sheikh is wrong, you need to follow our sheikh" (at > least they aren't supposed to) > > my earlier remarks [taken in the spirit of what I wrote] apply here too... > > and lastly you dear Gilberto wrote: > > And My Third Point is the Unique Significance of the Universal House of > > Justice in this Dispensation following elucidating realizing the guidance > of > > God's Supreme Manifestation > > I'm not sure why you are mentioning this. I'm not Bahai. I think if you are > a Bahai the UHJ may seem like an amazing institution and you might > appreciate something special in it. But if you aren't a Bahai (and I don't > mean any disrespect, really) It's just 9 dudes in Israel voting on stuff. I > don't know what makes it stand out from your perspective. The Supreme Court > of the United States is also another group of 9 people who study and > deliberate on a somewhat different set > of "writings" but I'm not sure how an outsider would objectively see that > one is so much more amazing than the other. > Peace Gilberto > > ** It's just 9 dudes in Israel voting on stuff** > It is a pity you at the moment write in this way but believe me there is a > lot more to this than meets your eyes at the moment. That may be the case. But I would be surprised if most non-Bahais would be impressed by the structure of the UHJ. I could see other aspects of the Bahai faith being appealing to non-Bahais... perhaps certain passages in the writings, perhaps certain Bahai doctrines, perhaps the stories of the Bab or Bahaullah's lives. But again, I don't see what would be impressive about the UHJ to a non-Bahai. Peace Gilberto "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
