Dear all,
I believe the following is pertinent to this thread:
"If, in the Day when all the peoples of the earth will be gathered together,
any man should, whilst standing in the presence of God, be asked: "Wherefore
hast thou disbelieved in My Beauty and turned away from My Self," and if
such a man should reply and say: "Inasmuch as all men have erred, and none
hath been found willing to turn his face to the Truth, I, too, following
their example, have grievously failed to recognize the Beauty of the
Eternal," such a plea will, assuredly, be rejected. For the faith of no man
can be conditioned by any one except himself."
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 143)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gilberto Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Baha'i Studies" <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: believing v. understanding Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
On 10/24/05, Khazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[quoting from]
(Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 447)
Gilberto:
Ok. I"ve read that.
Right now, it is just a claim. There is no evidence for it. There is no
compelling reason to believe it.
So I basically have to just leave it alone.
Khazeh:
Dear Gilberto
When this lowly one quoted the above, you reply:
***
Right now, it is just a claim. There is no evidence for it. There is no
compelling reason to believe it.***
Khazeh:
i wonder, dear Gilberto, as you typed the above, did you really think
about
it.
The evidence [the life-long evidence of the maternal uncle of the Bab] is
just a ***claim***!.
Gilberto:
Yes.
Khazeh:
The Bab's uncle was descended by a lineal succession
from the Imam Husayn. He gave his life. His thoughtful loving head was
beheaded [as indeed 20, 000 died and recently even young women in Shiraz
died...] all this is a ***CLAIM***
Gilberto:
Yes. There are many many people who are descended from the prophet
Muhammad. (saaws) Descent from the prophet or Hussain does not confer
infallibility. The Ayatollah Khomeini is also descended from the
prophet. Many people in the Iranian Muslim religious establishment are
also descended from the prophet through Hussein. There are many Sunni
religious figures who are descended from the prophet. I even read an
article explaining that John Kerry (along with a chunk of European
royalty) are also descended from the Prophet Muhammad.
and we sitting in the cerebral West write
on our keyboards and send it across the world ...***Right now, it is just
a
claim. There is no evidence for it. There is no compelling reason to
believe
it.****
If you want to call it cerebral, that's ok. Personally, I don't think
that arguing in an "emotional" mode is very persuasive or compelling.
I think I could fairly say that sometimes you write in a very sweet,
emotional, flowery style. And it makes me think "Khazeh is a nice guy"
but it doesn't make me think "I should therefore believe the arguments
he is making". ESpecially because there are also Christians who are
sweet and nice. And there are Muslims who are sweet and nice. And
there are Buddhists who are sweet and nice. etc.
Peace
Gilberto
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