----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilberto Simpson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Baha'i Studies" <bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 2:37 PM Subject: Re: question about Islam
On 5/11/06, Richard H. Gravelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Gilberto: > > Ok. So why do you seem so hesitant and reluctant towards recognizing > > the validity [of] this capacity? > > There can be no hesitation in the recognition of what God has created. My > question to you is: If you imply that these "intrinsic values" are > self-sustaining", i.e. exist without the Revelation of them by God, how then > did they come to be? For surely if they arose out of the consciences of > man, then they arose out of what is under the control of God. Any value > imparted to them must have come from God. Yet you seem to assert that God > is not necessary for man to reason or understand. Gilberto: I think you are assuming things which I'm not saying nor intending. God is the ultimate source of everything. I think I would take that for granted. But then he gives us certain faculties as well which we can use to appreciate the creation. 'A statement which is undisputed. I would add however that the primary reason fo that capacity is so that we may recognise God. And again, in particular, before Bahaullah declared that slavery was prohibited, it was possible for morally sensitive human beings to see how the institution was being implemented, and could see the brutality, and suffering and greed which was at the root, and so they could see that slavery was morally problematic without having to be told. How can a man declare that refusing to do what God has permitted is virtuous because what God has permitted is violative of the "intrinsic moral value" of human life? It is impossible. Human life has no value except that which God Himself has declared. If, on the other hand, should God reveal that slavery is permitted; but it is better for a man not to hold an human as a slave, then there would be virtue in not holding slaves, while such an act is permitted. The point is that man cannot declare "intrinsic value" or "moral value" without a supporting Revelation from God. Your example, in my opinion, demonstrates no supporting Revelation from God. Richard. - The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu