Rubie, Pardon my frankness, but your argument 'Imagine if oil goes to $20 barrel? Your first 2 years of production where a great chunk of "your oil" will be sold, will be about 1/5 of todays projections which would make 3000$ an acre an absurdly high number' sounds exactly like some slick talk an 'investor' 'hustler' or other such titled 'hard-working person' would use to convince an area mineral owner, perhaps whose entire financial planning experience is comprised of CD's at the local bank, forget about diversifications, stocks, munys, hedge funds, etc. etc. This is a rural culture, with small town frame of reference. I'm not sure that my own Dad ever saw a copy of the WSJ, let alone read it. They pay attention the grain futures, the livestock prices, and the cost of running their farm or ranch. Your other statement : "Look at all sides of an equation before blasting it. I am playing devils advocate but there are many scenarios out there that have a very real chance of happening which would be very very very detrimental to your royalty' sounds to me like someone who has been in the upper echelons of the sales industry -- absolutely 'salesman speak'. It is lost on me, as I probably have as much or more training and experience in negotiating, mediating and facilitation as you do. But it is precisely this type of sales-job on the new royalty owners of the region that create the 'luck' you speak of when referring to the people who offer to buy minerals from areas where there is no risk to them -- only to the mineral owners. Sorry, Rubie, no sale. A shout-out to Little Fish for sharing their story - hope things are going better for you.... Rufus
On Oct 6, 12:55 pm, little fish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Rufus & all, just gotta post, as this just happened to us. If it > wasn't for the wisdom of many, many, posters on this board, we MIGHT > of been taken in. here's what happened: I mentioned on this board we > might be willing to sell 160 acres of mineral rights. I recieved an e > mail from a man who expressed interest in buying. he offered $200.00 > per acre! if you can believe that! we then told him nicely, thanks but > no thanks, maybe we would talk IF the offer was over $400.00 or so, > but not before. (still kinda low, but it was a reply, NEVER expected > to hear from this man again!)A month later i got an e mail from > another man claiming to have got my address from the first man. He > offered $ 400.00 per mineral acre, but had to CHECK with his company & > see if they would agree to that price. I e mailed back & said still > too low, but maybe $ 500.00 & we'd think about it. 1 month later he e > mailed me back and said the company would except my price of $ 500.00 > per acre & could they call me to arrange paperwork & payment. Playing > along I gave them my number & waited. They called on the very next > business day and wanted to buy all 160 for $ 500.00 per acre on a 30 > day sight draft!!! I then knew this was a real scam! I mean LOOK, they > buy our rights, we sign them over & they have 30 banking days to sell > our rights to someone for double or more. IF they don't sell them, > they dishonor the sight draft!! Now some of you may think I'm being > cynical or overly cautious. BUT I KNOW for a fact this was this > company's plan, as the guy I dealt with got extremely, nervous and > evasive, and real quiet, when I told him,just what I thought they were > doing. I demanded a check upon signing, period. they hem-hawed around, > with alot of double talk & such, I could check with they're bank & > verify ect. BUT there's no getting around it, IF we would of signed > over our ownership, it would of been the most STUPID thing we ever > did! Sure they might of really sold our minerals to some other > company, and we might of gotten our $500.00 per acre after 45 real > days, BUT they would of gotten god knows how much out of OUR mineral > rights, just by being the middle man, and using a sight draft, unseen > money, get it? I don't care how you slice it THAT is wrong! IMHO. > It's a brillant plot, but plot it is. That's a perfect example of how > if you are smart enough, you CAN make alot of money off of something > you don't even own!! MINERAL OWNERS BEWARE!! They ARE out there, & > they are very smart. So, if a person really wants to sell, fine, BUT, > get your money up front! Don't let them USE your property for their > own gain!! Can't wait to hear the backlash of this post, LOL. > little fish > > On Oct 5, 8:29 pm, "Rufus O'Malley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hey there Rubie, > > Can you swear to the fact that every single one of these companies > > making these offers are just legit hard-working guys and gals working > > their little fannies to the bones making a living just like all of > > us? Huh. Thought, not. Whether you agree or not, some of these > > 'offers' ARE and will be scams and some of them will even get the > > signatures on the dotted lines and run like h&^%, leaving people with > > no minerals and no money. All of your dealings have been legit. Good. > > I am truly relieved to hear that. But unless you care to indemnify all > > in your 'investment field', perhaps you, too, should be advising a > > 'bit of caution', because when you make your next offer to buy > > someone's assets, you most certainly will be painted with the same > > brush once the scams start hitting the fan in that area. > > When there is big money to be made, such as post-Katrina, scammers are > > sure to follow. That, sadly, is a reality. > > I'm quite certain, (actually, I am 100% certain) that every single > > poster here views their minerals as 'assets', thank you though, for > > informing us of that fact. > > Just because you consider a hustler, (oh, pardon me, 'investor') who > > may have just gotten an 80-year to sign over 1000 mineral acres for > > twice the going lease rate to be creating his own 'luck', I consider > > them to be one rung up on the food chain from pond-scum. And, I do > > realize it is hard work and risky. One of these days, some gray-haired > > farmer could fill his hide with birdshot, he may not make it to the > > next town in time. I hope it's me (though I am not a farmer). I will > > admire no such individual (hustlers, that is. Farmers actually do work > > a hard and risky job.) > > If writing on discussion boards is so distasteful and lowly, I cannot > > help but wonder what you are doing here with us? > > Very best regards, > > Rufus > > > In Oct 5, 7:43 pm, rubie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > David has made a good point. These offers can be right for some > > > people. > > > > Just playing with some numbers say the well has 250,000 bo proven > > > reserves. At 640 spacing that puts about net for the m“neral owner at > > > a 1/8 lease about 49 net barrels over the life of the well. If oil is > > > at 100$ barrel that puts the total value without time cost of money at > > > 4800$/acre. Of course if you dicounted it back > > > That figure would be much smaller or say if the price of oil would go > > > to 50$ a barrel they would be of course valued in half. > > > > I have bought many minerals over the years and it is so common to hear > > > mineral owners say," there isn't enough money in the world to buy my > > > minerals." Well that is true for some people because they have zero > > > clue how to value minerals. I often would sell portions of minerals to > > > hedge my investment. If the well came back good you may lose a bit. If > > > the well comes back bad you wish you would have sold them all.in the > > > end I treated them as an investment and did what I could to limit > > > risk. To the untrained or uneducated selling minerals seems absurd but > > > I have found it to be very helpful. > > > > I suggest to all not to laugh off all these offers for there are some > > > good ones out there. Look at it this way. Minerals are an asset. If a > > > great chunk of your supposed worth is tied up in minerals it is very > > > wise to sell a portion and use that money to move into different asset > > > classes. There may be some money left on the table but your long term > > > economic future will be more stable and unsuspected drops in the price > > > of oil or production will not have the impact on you that it would > > > have had you not diversified. > > > > Moral of my ramblings is I guess it never hurts to take a little money > > > up front and DIVERSIFY. > > > > Also these are people tryin to make a living not fulltime scam artist. > > > If you have ever purchased anything in hopes of making money you have > > > done the same thing these people are attempting. The us is a free > > > market and people can offer to buy and offer to sell whatever they > > > own. I always told young guys in the business. You get a no 100% of > > > the time when you don't make an offer. Its hard work and risky. Admire > > > these people for instead of fretting about production and writing on > > > disc boards they seek it out and create luck versus just getting lucky > > > as most mineral owners have. That doesn't make them bad people they > > > are simply excercising their right to take part in commerce. > > > > BTW Rufus I sure would like to see a handful of your dirt that's worth > > > 3000$ based on some calculations your dirt is worth more than gold. > > > I'd get a roof over it and hire some security guards to stand watch. > > > Geez ten handfulls is worth 30,000$ I'd sell that stuff ten ways to > > > sunday and forget about the oil because it'll never print money like > > > that! > > > > paul giannotta wrote: > > > > Are there any financial advisers that can lend a hand and some advice > > > > as to > > > > what to do. > > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 12:58 PM, paul giannotta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > I was somewhat complimented by the fact that I was offered $40,000.00 > > > > > for > > > > > my interest, instead of something a lot less than that. I understand > > > > > that > > > > > some people were offered a lot less than what I was offered. Of > > > > > course, I > > > > > would never sell, however, I am concerned at this point NOT knowing > > > > > what my > > > > > royalty will be. > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 10:46 AM, Rufus O'Malley <[EMAIL > > > > > PROTECTED]>wrote: > > > > > >> Perhaps you could send a letter back to these companies > > > > >> 1) offering 3K to buy their entire company > > > > >> 2) place a handful of dirt in the return envelope and tell them that > > > > >> is what their 3K will buy. > > > > > >> But, seriously, because not everyone reads this blog, I do think it a > > > > >> good idea to write an op-ed to the local papers, exposing these > > > > >> scammers, name company names of the ones you know of ---- someone is > > > > >> going to get very hurt by these greedy opportunists.I would also send > > > > >> a copy (or the original)of these letters to the ND attorney general's > > > > >> office for investigation.... unfortunately, this problem will only > > > > >> get > > > > >> worse. > > > > > >> On Oct 2, 10:30 pm, flanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > >> > Yes, but one company sent me three letters in one day and they all > > > > >> > had > > > > >> > a stamped return envelope. I got three free stamps worth 42 cents > > > > >> > each. > > > > > >> > On Oct 2, 6:11 pm, Gary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > Bridgepoint Mineral Acquisition Fund, from Oklahoma City offered > > > > >> > > me > > > > >> > > $1000 an acre back around the first of the year. It took me > > > > >> > > quite a > > > > >> > > while to stop laughing. > > > > > >> > > Another company from OK City offered $600 about a year ago. I > > > > >> > > threw > > > > >> > > their offer in the garbage before I finished reading it. > > > > > >> > > On Oct 2, 6:47 pm, David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > looking very good,...I think > > > > > >> > > > On- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bakken Shale Discussion" group. 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